AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[timorous]

Nobody has ruled out an 80 CU Big Navi so I do NOT know where you got "the fact" that Biggest Navi will not have 80 CU. All evidence seems to point to 80 CU for biggest Navi and 64 for lesser models.

I made no such claim. Re read it.

 

[Howling]

Nvidia only have that massive market share due to having better cards, not because they’re produced by Nvidia.

This has been shown to be untrue quite a few times. There's been many many instances where AMD had the better card at a particular price point and nVidia still outsold -- this is because the card says "nVidia"

You could argue that it's whoever has the top card, regardless of pricepoint, that gets the better end in sales down the stack - but given that AMD haven't had that top crown for a hot minute, that's tough to verify. This is kinda my intuition - if AMD had the fastest card for 2 generations back to back I think we'd start to see the situation reversing.. but I'm not convinced that's a likely test scenario.

 

[queamin]

I think even when they had the 9700/9800 and they were great card, Nvidia outsold them but could be wrong.

 

[Robert896r1]

This has been shown to be untrue quite a few times. There's been many many instances where AMD had the better card at a particular price point and nVidia still outsold -- this is because the card says "nVidia"

You could argue that it's whoever has the top card, regardless of pricepoint, that gets the better end in sales down the stack - but given that AMD haven't had that top crown for a hot minute, that's tough to verify. This is kinda my intuition - if AMD had the fastest card for 2 generations back to back I think we'd start to see the situation reversing.. but I'm not convinced that's a likely test scenario.

Having your card being the flagship card is a key contributor to mindshare. People want to have the piece of mind they're buying from the company who makes the "best" card.

It also lets you get away with a slip up here and there. There have been moments (like 5700xt currently vs similar priced nvidia) where AMD has a competitive offering at a certain price point but that's tough to build a reputation around as it can change quickly.

But overall the truth is nvidia makes really good cards, has good drivers and keep moving the bar on software and features. It's not a lame duck competitor like intel.

 

[gpuerrilla]

I think even when they had the 9700/9800 and they were great card, Nvidia outsold them but could be wrong.

I think this is correct, what people leave out is there is a huge pre-built desktop and laptop area that is sewn up for long periods of time, so companies like Dell, Lenovo have agreements with nvidia so its baked into their lineup for ages.

If people buy these entry level machines or mobile version thinking that just because it has the brand name on it "it must be good" they are mistaken.

Having your card being the flagship card is a key contributor to mindshare. People want to have the piece of mind they're buying from the company who makes the "best" card.

I dont think this is 100% the reason at all. People bought Ryzen as it was versatile under various workloads offering more cores and ultimately more value. The Ryzen chips still are not the 'best' in specific tasks but when you have all the influencers, streamers and builders retorting they offer the best performance per $ you listen.

This could easily be replicated on the GPU division, they first had to crack the efficiency per watt as they did lag behind, but once they get the key parts checked off, they can turn the screw like in the CPU remit by offering it for better $$$.

 

[Richdog]

This has been shown to be untrue quite a few times. There's been many many instances where AMD had the better card at a particular price point and nVidia still outsold -- this is because the card says "nVidia"

You could argue that it's whoever has the top card, regardless of pricepoint, that gets the better end in sales down the stack - but given that AMD haven't had that top crown for a hot minute, that's tough to verify. This is kinda my intuition - if AMD had the fastest card for 2 generations back to back I think we'd start to see the situation reversing.. but I'm not convinced that's a likely test scenario.

I think even when they had the 9700/9800 and they were great card, Nvidia outsold them but could be wrong.

Nvidia outsold them through the same principle as with Intel... they built an enduring reputation and legacy during the early days of GPU history and thereafter their Geforce brand was in everyone's mind.

The ATI 9800 PRO and X800 XT were imo the glory years of ATI (now AMD) GPU's, when they were the undisputed performance kings and Nvidia was left reeling. Enthusiasts lapped those cards up, myself included. Then for the next few years it was reasonably level until Nvidia released the 6800 series, which blew everything else away by a significant margin. This was the beginning of a downwards spiral for ATI and for a long time they ended up just playing catch-up in the best way that they could, while mostly eating Nvidia's dust and watching them grow. Plus, their reputation for drivers was a lot worse in the old days.

AMD now really seem to be on the right track and are building a solid foundation of CPU's and GPU's that will take them through the next generations while staying strong. They have the console GPU market tied up and the upcoming RDNA 2 / Big Navi will likely perform well and spawn a generation of solid cards. I think that in a couple of generations AMD will be very competitive with Nvidia and it will be hard to choose between them. It may come down to software innovation and other features and in this area Nvidia really do have the advantage with things like DLSS.

 

[Chrisc]

For years I've heard about Nvidia's 'mind share' but I have never really appreciated how strong it was until a couple of days ago when the released the RTX 3080. Fanboys on Twitter and other platforms were losing their minds because they were unable to get a hold of one of these cards. Traffic on the OCUK store was so high the site slowed down to a slow crawl and eventually crashed...... twice. Just reading through some of the threads on here and see a bunch of new users and users with a handful of posts for accounts that were opened years ago.

It doesn't matter how good RDNA2 is, AMD will never be able to match a company who has crafted such a customer base. Nvidia killer? At best this is a good Nvidia alternative.

So true.

 

[snips86x]

As a prospective 3090 owner, though unlikely to be able to get one on my birthday no less next week, I just need more grunt to try to drive 4K/120. If only AMD would surprise us all and at least tease us with something right up there prior to their release next month.

It may just be an announcement too, AMD haven’t actually provided launch dates have they?

Nothing from what I've seen. Their marketing department needs some work :/

 

[aoaaron]

This has been shown to be untrue quite a few times. There's been many many instances where AMD had the better card at a particular price point and nVidia still outsold -- this is because the card says "nVidia"

You could argue that it's whoever has the top card, regardless of pricepoint, that gets the better end in sales down the stack - but given that AMD haven't had that top crown for a hot minute, that's tough to verify. This is kinda my intuition - if AMD had the fastest card for 2 generations back to back I think we'd start to see the situation reversing.. but I'm not convinced that's a likely test scenario.

Yes, they need consistency.

with AMD being features on the PS5 and XBOX, they do have a little bit more clout to elavate themselves beyond a budget GPU brand now.. and their processors obviously now do their name no harm... but will they bring the performance to beat the 3080? Thats the bottom line... and if its no, please tell me so I can buy a 3080. lol.

 

[Kashinoda]

I totally agree with you, although I do question their release methods. They appear to have coincided with the console release and not directly with the nvidia release. If they'd released specs, benchmarks or a few reviews ahead of nvidia, more people may have waited. Their time frames are rather odd but I'm looking forward to what they will be like.

If they can pull something out the bag, like match the 3080 for 100-150 less, they'll be onto a winner. Fingers crossed.

This assumes everyone who wants a 3080 will manage to get one prior. I expect stock should noramlise somewhat in October but apparently they're using air-freight now so that added cost will be added to the already marked up AIB cards.

I do wonder if AMDs timing is down to how many they can actually produce. TSMC are churning out wafers for Zen 3, RDNA2 and SOCs for XBX and PS5 - it's a big mad.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Nothing from what I've seen. Their marketing department needs some work :/

AMD have tried many different approaches, and nothing helped them to pull the die-hard Nvidia users in increase their market share (not even when the 5850/5870 destroyed the GTX285 and the HD7970 destroyed the GTX580...so people that suggesting AMD just need to have the fastest card they got no clue, especially when that accounts for like less than 3% of the market).

What they need is for those die-hard users getting Nvidia cards first, then release new cards not much later that's faster by a reasonable margin and at the same or lower price to essentially give those Nvidia users just bought a new card a punch in the gut and cause an even higher level of buyer remorse than the 3080 to the 2080ti owners, then may be...just may be those die-hard Nvidia users would pay some attention to AMD.

Don't think AMD can manage it though, but they really need to that big of a smack on the head (or punch in the gut) in order to wrestle the Nvidia users over and begins to gain more marketshare.

 

[g67575]

Some are insisting it will have 80 CUs. maybe it will. But, what constitutes evidence? Some random dude giving you their opinion on Yt or Twitter?

They only got to 36 and 52 for RDNA 2 on consoles, the performance is roughly similar to a RTX 2080 and RTX 2080 TI, respectively.

I think the desktop GPUs will be improved / scaled up versions of the console designs... It should be much cheaper to base the desktop GPUs on console designs, rather than start from scratch.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It wouldn't surprise if the initial release is a 60CU part with higher clockspeeds.

 

[HRL]

This has been shown to be untrue quite a few times. There's been many many instances where AMD had the better card at a particular price point and nVidia still outsold -- this is because the card says "nVidia"

You could argue that it's whoever has the top card, regardless of pricepoint, that gets the better end in sales down the stack - but given that AMD haven't had that top crown for a hot minute, that's tough to verify. This is kinda my intuition - if AMD had the fastest card for 2 generations back to back I think we'd start to see the situation reversing.. but I'm not convinced that's a likely test scenario.

Guess I’ve just got a different mindset then as I’m completely brand agnostic.

Just give me the performance I want at the price I want, I don’t care who makes it!

 

[gpuerrilla]

AMD have tried many different approaches, and nothing helped them to pull the die-hard Nvidia users in increase their market share (not even when the 5850/5870 destroyed the GTX285 and the HD7970 destroyed the GTX580...so people that suggesting AMD just need to have the fastest card they got no clue, especially when that accounts for like less than 3% of the market).

Solid.

Just look at the release this week, people are desperate for them. Most wont ever give a **** about AMD. There are still some just about considering ditching intel for Ryzen..

 

[Jacky60]

There was the suggestion that the top-end card would be from AMD in order to cut out the leaky AIB partners

I'd love that to be true, I prefer going straight to manufacturer unless the AIB is performing better AND no more than £50 more expensive. £200-£300 markups from AIBs really is taking the pi$$.

 

[Jacky60]

Here's a leak that came in sometime ago:

https://www.kitguru.net/components/...and-dg2-graphics-cards-specs-may-have-leaked/

Intel is going MCM with Xe, if they are able to pack even 2 of those, Nvidia's pants are down and AMD will be holding emergency shareholder events

I hope Intel does come out swinging with Xe, anything to spice up the market and boost performance/reduce prices is good for all of us. Three big players in the CPU AND GPU space will speed progress immensely.

 

[g67575]

From a performance perspective, increasing clock rate would increase TF count, pixel rate and texture rate, so seems like a good option for all around GPU performance.

If they just increase the CU count, they would also need to increase the TMU and ROP count too, to gain a boost to TF count, pixel rate and texture rate. Otherwise, you would see a similar perf. benefit to the RTX 3080, which mostly just increases the TF count vs the 2080 TI.

 

[Jacky60]

I disagree. If AMD came out with a product that was good enough people would certainly buy them. Nvidia only have that massive market share due to having better cards, not because they’re produced by Nvidia.

However, GPU’s do seem to bring out some sort of tribalism for a minority of people. Definitely brings out the fanboyism amongst a few on here.

Bring out a 3090 beating card AMD and you already have a sale from me and many many others!

+1, AMD do well with market share whenever they have decent products, fanboy loyalty starts to unravel when and if you have a significantly faster product at the same price or a similarly performant product significantly cheaper
so 20% faster or 20% cheaper.

 

[g67575]

I think the best case scenario would be a PS5 like desktop GPU with double the CU count (72), at the same 2233 mhz clockrate. I dont know if its possible though, adding extra CUs seems to require a lot of power (look at the difference between the rx 5700 and the 5700 xt).

If 72 CUs is possible, and each 4 CUs results in ~10% performance increase, you would get a GPU that is 90% faster than the PS5 GPU.