AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

[KentMan]

78% performance increase in one generation should be very easy yeah. Just child's play to make a jump so big that we've never seen anything like it in the last decade, easy, no stress.


£400 on a GPU that's slower than the new consoles?

Very true, got an email from my Dell Account Manager this morning discussing an incorrectly placed Order for some laptops, she remarked "Might be an idea to hang onto those extra laptops as we are experiencing delays again getting CPU's from Intel" i wanted to reply "Why dont you get some AMD CPU's instead then" but it just falls on deaf ears.

I believe our Global Dell account is up for renewal soon, i am on a few decision making boards so will try and push my influence for us to consider other vendors who will offer AMD alternatives, as ultimately, the goal is to save money, regardless of what us IT guys want, everything is financially driven, if we can show them AMD is a cheaper option with better performance etc they'll normally bite.

Problem is what other largescale OEM's will offer that? Lenovo and HP? not sure what their offerings are like currently.

 

[GAC]

Base on last gen AMD were doing the 5700XT for 2060 price for 2070 performance. If they come with more RAM than the 3070 I imagine their 6700XT (or whatever they call it) would still undercut the 3070 but probably not by as much, maybe £50 less. The important question is performance. That'll guide the SKU prices. Obviously they're playing their cards very close to their chest which means RDNA2 is either a stinker or an utter beast. Lets hope it's the latter.

its not just the raw performance, you had the ever present drivers question and then the extras like ray tracing, dlss and even nvidia's video encoding for streaming on top. as well as that other constant dubious build quality.

like iv said a few posts ago, amd need to hit all of these and if the prices are better than nvidia i can see a good chunk swapping.

 

[humbug]

Dell owe their market position to Intel.

The last time AMD were competitive with Intel they reacted by giving their CPU's away to people like Dell, people still demanded AMD powered systems from them so Intel paid Dell $850m a year not to use AMD's CPU's.

That was illegal and AMD got compensation from Intel for it but it was a poultry sum compared with the R&D costs and loss of sales.

Legally Intel can offer cashback payments, which they are doing, doesn't matter how good AMD's CPU's might be money talks and Intel have a vast cash stash, they can buy AMD out of the market in new and legal ways.

The one problem Intel do have is AMD have come from literally zero, so any gain is a win to AMD and they are making gains, AMD are also so efficient they can not just survive but thrive on what is pocket change to Intel.

What AMD need to do is keep the competitive pressure on Intel because even Intel cannot go on forever trying to buy AMD out of the market, eventually you get to the point where you're creating products that you're paying people to use in a bid to stop your competition from growing, who despite this are still growing.

 

[DDH]

Lolwhut? Ampere is no improvement whatsoever in RT performance over a
Thuring? How can people write this drivel with a straight face?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX3W7Sx4l78

"In several games we tested, theres no, or less than a 10% speed up to ray tracing acceleration when comparing these gpus"

It isnt drivel if its the true. The 3080 is a faster card but there is hardly any improvement in the RT acceleration capabilities compared with the last generation

So Ampere has shown that current games doesn't scale well after 5000 cores, wonder how that will affect big Navi

Ampere is not a balanced architecture for gaming. Only the FP32 cuda cores increased by 50%.

Quake 2 which is fully path traced.

Ampere has lots more RT performance then Turing but the issue is the pipeline is shared with everything else so when mixed with traditional rendering techniques things get congested and the GPU can't fully utilise all the extra cores.

It doesnt really, outside of the increase in raster performance

I'm buying in as I feel RT is usuable this gen, at least at 1440p.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-review?page=6

Control: 1440p, DX12, High, High RT, TAA

   2080     35
   2080Ti   46
   3080     70

Metro Exodus: 1440p, DX12, Ultra, Ultra RT, TAA

   2080     51
   2080Ti   66
   3080     90

Battlefield 5: 1440p, DX12, Ultra, Ultra RT, TAA

   2080     70
   2080Ti   92
   3080    115

Quake 2: 1440p, RTX, Vulkan, Max Settings

   2080     31
   2080Ti   41
   3080     62

Battlefield 5 is an odd one as they drastically cut the amount of RT in game since launch.

See the video above. The 3080 is a faster card overall, and the increase in fps vs 2080ti is due to this fact. The RT acceleration performance improvement from Turing to Ampere is 10% or less

 

[DDH]

Dell owe their market position to Intel.

The last time AMD were competitive with Intel they reacted by giving their CPU's away to people like Dell, people still demanded AMD powered systems from them so Intel paid Dell $850m a year not to use AMD's CPU's.

That was illegal and AMD got compensation from Intel for it but it was a poultry sum compared with the R&D costs and loss of sales.

Legally Intel can offer cashback payments, which they are doing, doesn't matter how good AMD's CPU's might be money talks and Intel have a vast cash stash, they can buy AMD out of the market in new and legal ways.

The one problem Intel do have is AMD have come from literally zero, so any gain is a win to AMD and they are making gains, AMD are also so efficient they can not just survive but thrive on what is pocket change to Intel.

What AMD need to do is keep the competitive pressure on Intel because even Intel cannot go on forever trying to buy AMD out of the market, eventually you get to the point where you're creating products that you're paying people to use in a bid to stop your competition from growing, who despite this are still growing.

Not only that, but amd mobile chips seem to be limited to low performance discrete gpus this time around, ie 2060 and below. At least next year we will see zen3 5000 series mobile chips coupled with high end rdna2 graphics, and theres nothing intel can do

 

[KentMan]

Actually the 5700 xt is more a 2070s 2080 level, so for 2060 money you were getting a bargain.
Also I think AMD will have 12GB VRM for the 5700xt replacement.

If AMD can give me 3080 or better performance with 16GB of Ram for £600+ i'll bite, my 5700XT Red Devil has been superb, extremely cool and quiet, zero driver issues, i'll swap out my kids 1080 with it... i have zero issues with AMD's software, their drivers for me have been stable throughout my last set of cards (6950 > 7850 > 7870 > 290 > Vega 64 > 1070 > 5700XT), never had any Freesync issues etc etc.

Worst thing about AMD cards i can recall lately has been reference coolers, however that Render of the new Tri-fan AMD reference design looks a beauty.

The more i think about it in all honesty i'll probably go for whatever high end AMD has this time as long as its not ridiculously overpriced, hot and loud, and judging from those pics of the cooler i have a sneaky suspicion AMD has focused on bringing a cool and quiet reference model to market, so all that remains to be seen really is price and performance

 

[kaiserc]

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-6000-series-navi-21-16-gb-navi-22-12-gb-gpu-vram/

 

[humbug]

Not only that, but amd mobile chips seem to be limited to low performance discrete gpus this time around, ie 2060 and below. At least next year we will see zen3 5000 series mobile chips coupled with high end rdna2 graphics, and theres nothing intel can do

There is actually a good reason for this, and it is on AMD's side.

Renoir only has 8 PCIe3 lanes for the GPU and that strangles anything above the GTX 2060, its AMD's fault that one.

They have even acknowledged this, they are already working on Zen 3 APU's and these are going to be proper ####, no more ###### about with ancient Vaga iGPU's and heavily cutdown PCIe crap, the demand for Renoir surprised AMD by Lisa Sue's own admission, and they are going all out next time round, and soon.

BTW way guys, Euro Gamer = Digital Foundry.

 

[elroberto]

AMD are literally eating Intel's lunch in the DIY space, its a complete flip, AMD are now selling 80% to Intel's 20%.

AMD achieved this because 'with Zen 2' <take note of that before replying to this... AMD got the Motherboards right, they got the BIOS and Software right, the performance is there.

In games AMD still lag a little behind Intel, with Zen 2, but it doesn't matter, The motherboards are good quality, the platform is reliable, the software stack, like Ryzen Master is really good, the CPU's are not a great deal cheaper, a 10600K costs £260, a Ryzen 3600 is £220, the Ryzen 3600 outsells the 10600K massively despite it being slower in gaming.

Because people trust the Ryzen brand, they even like it to the point where "Ryzen" has started almost a cult following, rather cleverly marketed people never say "AMD CPU's" they say "Ryzen CPU's" oh yes i want one of those....

What AMD are now doing to Intel in the DIY space was unthinkable just 2 years ago, the untouchable almost god like Intel are now firmly seen as second best by normies.

AMD could elevate the "Radeon" brand if they get everything right, Ryzen proves its possible.

I think they're more likely to push the RDNA branding. It's a simple thing people can get behind, Console Graphics, powered by RDNA...PC, even more powerful versions of RDNA. Next year, hype up the new RDNA cards. In fact, drop the Radeon altogether

 

[gpuerrilla]

If AMD can give me 3080 or better performance with 16GB of Ram for £600+ i'll bite, my 5700XT Red Devil has been superb, extremely cool and quiet, zero driver issues, i'll swap out my kids 1080 with it... i have zero issues with AMD's software, their drivers for me have been stable throughout my last set of cards (6950 > 7850 > 7870 > 290 > Vega 64 > 1070 > 5700XT), never had any Freesync issues etc etc.

Worst thing about AMD cards i can recall lately has been reference coolers, however that Render of the new Tri-fan AMD reference design looks a beauty.

The more i think about it in all honesty i'll probably go for whatever high end AMD has this time as long as its not ridiculously overpriced, hot and loud, and judging from those pics of the cooler i have a sneaky suspicion AMD has focused on bringing a cool and quiet reference model to market, so all that remains to be seen really is price and performance

I think you will find the guys who have bought AMD cards over the past 3-4 years will vouch that the driver scenario is not a problem. You get your regular complainers, glad you had no issues either. It hasnt put me off owning one.

To be honest though, I was looking forward to nvidia being priced competitively this new gen, however after the mediocre 'improvements' and then the car crash of availability stock (never mind the 6 week wait) I am just going to wait for what AMD can launch now before any hardware decision is made for 2020.

 

[humbug]

@elroberto Yeah maybe ^^^

 

[gpuerrilla]

^^^ Those that want more vram out of the gate, the latest navi leaks suggest 12 + 16Gb cards so being honest all they have to do now is perform around 3080 and its there. The sugar coating will be in the power consumption and lastly availability. No point in rocking up to the war if you have another nvidia launch fail.

Actually one advantage being with the 20% of the market is you shouldnt have millions of 'gamers' melting down to own one just yet.

 

[sideways14a]

I had issues with drivers when i had an AMD card, i have had similar issues with my 1080ti.

Upshot of this is, windows is a bit crap not necessarily the GPU manufacturers.

 

[Nablaoperator]

Dont you folks remember the time when AMD's drivers broke Direct X 9 compatibility and you weren't able to play your favourite games due to that?

 

[gpuerrilla]

I had issues with drivers when i had an AMD card, i have had similar issues with my 1080ti.

Upshot of this is, windows is a bit crap not necessarily the GPU manufacturers.

Your not lying. Every windows update at work it brakes something. In the AMD driver thread, a lot of issues were rectified by changing PSU, using another port on the card, swapping cable or people not using the same PCI-e connectors chaining into the card. If you factor that in the people with bad cards was actually low.

 

[humbug]

Your not lying. Every windows update at work it brakes something. In the AMD driver thread, a lot of issues were rectified by changing PSU, using another port on the card, swapping cable or people not using the same PCI-e connectors chaining into the card. If you factor that in the people with bad cards was actually low.

RE: PSU's. Cable extensions can be an issue for any GPU or CPU. the more copper you put between your PSU and the component the less stable the voltage ripple is, and some of those nice looking sleeved cable extensions are not made from the highest quality copper.

Don't mess with your PSU people, the folks who made it know best

 

[pugheaven]

Dont you folks remember the time when AMD's drivers broke Direct X 9 compatibility and you weren't able to play your favourite games due to that?

No rofl

 

[Lokken86]

Yes. Everywhere i look its Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen Ryzen..... Intel know their Mindshare in the DIY space has GONE and they are trying to break through all the Ryzen noise but are finding themselves in exactly the same situation AMD were in with Bulldozer, there is a vast Ryzen army that troll Intel everytime they look over the parapet.

This is also why i said its a complete reversal.

Still some local retailers here trying to push Intel in your face. Me and a mate were in this shop for his new build and got a tall tale from the owner about his 3800x system and it ran too hot and blah blah blah. Said he had no choice but to get the Intel they are "just better" . I pulled him the review of the exact processor he bought (10700k) and the 3800x ran cooler. 96c when oc to 5.1 the 10700k was too...So yeah some of them are still talking nonsense.
Funny though, my mate insisted nah "I just want the Ryzen".

 

[KentMan]

See i cannot fathom how people can complain about AMD drivers from years ago and still label AMD as fail because of it, try the damn cards and make a judgement based off current facts, not some rumour mill or experiences from a millennium ago lol.

I did read a few people had blackscreen issues with 5700XT cards, i bet though that came down to hardware issues elsewhere with the PC's, i run X570 so PCIE4, and never once had issues with my 5700XT and ive used pretty much every set of drivers they released, often installing directly over the top.

 

[gpuerrilla]

RE: PSU's. Cable extensions can be an issue for any GPU or CPU. the more copper you put between your PSU and the component the less stable the voltage ripple is, and some of those nice looking sleeved cable extensions are not made from the highest quality copper.

Don't mess with your PSU people, the folks who made it know best

I know most wont want to accept it, but some of these things arent actually AMD's fault. There will be some faulty ones but similar failures occur to nvidia cards too, like people say though, everyone remembers the AMD problems.. quick to forgive the nvidia ones!