Ghosts - The white floaty things that go oooooooo

ethan · 29 Sep 2020 at 19:26

Unseul said:
Reliable anecdotal... that's pretty much an oxy-moron.

Not really since it was anecdotal to begin with leading to later confirmation.

ethan · 29 Sep 2020 at 19:31

Unseul said:
Eye witness evidence is the least reliable evidence, there's tons of investigations into just how poor it is. People have terrible memories, that fill in details all the time. I have a very solid memory, my earliest memory, of me when I was about 3, in my buggy on a really rainy day, with the rain cover on.

Only problem is, I know that it's false. It's almost certainly based on a real experience, but I know it's false, because the steps to our door and the path, are from when I was closer to 6/7 years old (extension to the same house). People can be convinced of virtually anything, memories aren't fixed, but flexible, and can be manipulated.

Except that it isn't with the NDE experiences I'm talking about. I was watching a conference involving a number of academics a couple of nights ago who indicated their research into the veracity of the experiences indicated they didn't waver or change over a period of twenty years.

Gray2233 · 29 Sep 2020 at 19:35

Tony Edwards said:
Actually I thought if you believed in god you werent allowed to believe in ghosts or something because of the heaven and hell thing?

Usher said:
You would have to believe in god to in order to believe that there is a heaven, so therefore you would believe in the holy spirit or holy ghost.

Ghosts are like the Loch Ness monster, or UFO's despite all the modern technology all you ever see are blurred shaky images or totally faked videos etc.

Depends on the religion.

There's all sorts of odd nuance and contradictory stories in most religious texts, certain sects of Christianity believe that ghosts can exist as souls who have yet to move on to heaven for example. There's similar in Abrahamic religions as a whole I believe, and then there's the likes of Buddism where a person who has lived poorly can be 'reborn' as a hungry ghost.

Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Festival

Unseul · 29 Sep 2020 at 19:53

ethan said:
Except that it isn't with the NDE experiences I'm talking about. I was watching a conference involving a number of academics a couple of nights ago who indicated their research into the veracity of the experiences indicated they didn't waver or change over a period of twenty years.

And? That still doesn't prove the original experience. Long term memory is fixed through recall. These people will ahve repeated their stories hundreds, if not thousands of times, that they can remember them verbatim is no longer a large surprise.

glenimp617 · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:19

so how can I exploit all this for huge financial gain? I mean I assume ghosts transend space and time?

someone earlier mentioned the sounds of children playing could have come from the future. If true, big if I know.............but if true, could they perhaps tell me next weeks lotto numebers?

all joking aside, if I asked my kids for last weeks numbers they wouldn't have a clue, so we need a game plan. Tell you what, if we all get our heads together and this comes off, I'll split some the winnings with you all.

Needs to be all six numbers though, have you seen the payout for five numbers? shocking! (edit, this weeks jackpot is only 2m...pah, we'll have to wait for a few rollovers for it to the worth the risk)

If this hotel has indeed turned into a school, I can't just walk in there carrying a ouji board. Can you imagine what the police would think if I got caught and told them what I was trying to do. They'd probably put me on the sex offenders list.

R.P.L · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:24

Tony Edwards said:
Well, ghosts dont exist so maybe the hotel was part of the pedo trafficking ring and the owners made up a lie about ghosts to deflect away from the crying children chained up in the cellar?

Bet you're fun at a party.

ethan · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:26

Unseul said:
And? That still doesn't prove the original experience. Long term memory is fixed through recall. These people will ahve repeated their stories hundreds, if not thousands of times, that they can remember them verbatim is no longer a large surprise.

It's a lot more complicated than that with these kinds of experiences. We are actually describing over 90% of all the NDE experiences collated in the world. Given the amounts it would be irrational to conclude they were all lying. Furthermore statistical analysis has concluded it would be preposterous to argue this.

The particular type of experience I refer to is referred to as being more vivid than the life of the experiencer from its onset and in a number of cases I've looked at offered corroborating evidence. For example, some experiencers report and describe looking down at their bodies in surgery-having been pronounced brain dead-and described what was done and said by the surgeons and staff. Some have gone on to describe what was seen and heard in an adjoining room involving staff and at least one incident involved someone in theatre actually meeting up with a member of staff who died who asked the person having an NDE to pass a message on to her parents. In this case, the request was mentioned to another shocked member of theatre who confirmed the death of her colleague. The message was given to the parents who confirmed it's veracity along with an apology describing the circumstances which led to the death (of the deceased). More significantly the death of the deceased occurred at the same time the person who was asked to pass the message on was having the NDE so there was no way she could have known through normal means.

[FnG]magnolia · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:26

A: Knock Kock!

B: Who's there?

A: Forgetful ghost!

B: Forgetful ghost who?

Tony Edwards · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:30

R.P.L said:
Bet you're fun at a party.

Yeah okay mate.

R.P.L said:
You seem to have made a lot of assumptions about what my 'something' referred to. I just meant that the only way that you could find the idea of the existence of some kind of creator outlandish would be if you were very confident that what we can observe is all that exists, and that we know everything about it (to avoid confusion, neither of those are true). We might only exist inside a computer, or the universe might be sitting in the palm of an old white guy with a big beard.

[FnG]magnolia · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:40

A: Yes, Forgetful ghost wooooOOOOOoooo!

R.P.L · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:44

Tony Edwards said:
Yeah okay mate.

Well done for quoting a post of mine, but I'm not sure what its relevance is here.

Unseul · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:44

ethan said:
It's a lot more complicated than that with these kinds of experiences. This particular type of experience is referred to as being more vivid than the life of the experiencer from its onset and in a number of cases I've looked at offered corroborating evidence. For example, some experiencers report and describe looking down at their bodies in surgery-having been pronounced brain dead-and described what was done and said by the surgeons and staff. Some have gone on to describe what was seen and heard in an adjoining room involving staff and at least one incident involved someone in theatre actually meeting up with a member of staff who died who asked the person having an NDE to pass a message on to her parents. In this case, the request was mentioned to another shocked member of theatre who confirmed the death of her colleague. The message was given to the parents who confirmed it's veracity along with an apology describing the circumstances which led to the death (of the deceased). More significantly the death of the deceased occurred at the same time the person who was asked to pass the message on was having the NDE so there was no way she could have known through normal means.

So you can link me to these documented cases? How many people in surgery have monitors on brain activity? Heart sure, but brain?

I can give you scientific documentation of brain activity 30 minutes after a heart has stopped beating https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...ion-of-death/11F9C14102AECB3D579C7DB879D6BB66

Awareness after death for several minutes here: https://bioethics.georgetown.edu/20...-the-biggest-ever-scientific-study-published/

There's even gruesome cases of beheaded people reacting for 20-30 seconds after being separated from their bodies. You can read about Henri Languille.

So a heart stopping for a minute or two, likely whilst being resuscitated and receiving oxygen, and still having some awareness of your surroundings is not supernatural.

Gerard · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:46

Usher said:
I've looked, it's a simple double exposure, see this website showing how it's done,

https://www.diyphotography.net/photographer-recreates-three-famous-ghost-photos-ever-taken/

And this one for a bigger laugh:-

https://www.flickr.com/photos/davewebster14/7375336862/

Meh, that's how it could have been done, doesn't prove that's what's in the picture. It may be and it may not be, only person who knows for sure is the one that took the picture, (and) the person in the Monk outfit if it was staged.

[FnG]magnolia · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:48

Gerard said:
Meh, that's how it could have been done, doesn't prove that's what's in the picture. It may be and it may not be, only person who knows for sure is the one that took the picture, (and) the person in the Monk outfit if it was staged.

And uh, also science and the explanation you were given.

Gerard · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:50

[FnG]magnolia said:
And uh, also science and the explanation you were given.

Shouldn't you be in another thread trying hard to be funny with "witty random comments"? And failing I might add.

[FnG]magnolia · 29 Sep 2020 at 20:57

Gerard said:
Shouldn't you be in another thread trying hard to be funny with "witty random comments"? And failing I might add.

No, here's good. Your logic is broken and you don't like the correct answer you were given. Not much in the way of 'funny', 'witty' or 'random' about being wrong, is there?

Gerard · 29 Sep 2020 at 21:00

[FnG]magnolia said:
No, here's good. Your logic is broken and you don't like the correct answer you were given. Not much in the way of 'funny', 'witty' or 'random' about being wrong, is there?

Show me the answer I was given. Last I checked I wasn't given an answer before your little effort. And saying "Uhh Science" really doesn't mean ****.

Malevolence · 29 Sep 2020 at 21:05

Usher said:
If they believe in ghosts then they must also believe in god so definitely not of sound mind

Surely that all depends on which particular 'God' they believe in.

Unseul · 29 Sep 2020 at 21:25

Gerard said:
Show me the answer I was given. Last I checked I wasn't given an answer before your little effort. And saying "Uhh Science" really doesn't mean ****.

Uhh science doesn't mean **** but saying Uhhh ghosts, is perfectly acceptable?

Gerard · 29 Sep 2020 at 21:31

Unseul said:
Uhh science doesn't mean **** but saying Uhhh ghosts, is perfectly acceptable?

He just said "uhh Science" like that was the be all end all answer as if Science knows everything, does he post any links or anything else? Nope. And who said "uhh Ghosts"?