Hamilton hatred

[Garido]

Referring to Red Bull costing him the win at Monaco 2016 by completely botching his pit stop (didn't have tyres out lolwut) and he was in ultra-sulk mode.

All the drivers are capable of throwing their toys out when they think someone else has screwed them, the fact Ricciardo was seen as mature about dealing with his own mistake here doesn't really change that.

Hamilton has every right to be angry at the team in the same way Ricciardo was at Monaco. Both are justified as they themselves are not at fault for the errors of the team. The attitude shown was different between both drivers in the most recent example of something not going your way (regardless of self inflicted, or not).

Let me rephrase;
If you asked me to describe Ricciardo I'd say down to earth, likable, genuine (and I'm not saying this because I live in Australia either). Where as if you asked me to describe Hamilton I would say, uncompromising, confrontational, perfectionist. They are not bad qualities, just different and they have served him very well. It's just because Daniel is more personable or relatable, I see him more positively.

 

[this_is_gav]

Hamilton's attitude is far better than it was in his McLaren days, where he was constantly sulking, among other poor traits, and sometimes it affected his performances for fairly prolonged periods, across multiple race weekends.

Now he's still very capable of sulking and that often affects that race, but does it far less often and gets over it quicker. I suppose winning every season goes some way to help though.

If Williams had done that I can imagine they might have just got a single 5 sec penalty as they're rubbish and at the back anyway. If you're a front running team you get the rules applied strictly with no mercy.

He was given two 5 second penalties as he made two practice starts in the fast lane of the pit exit outside of the designated area and at a point where cars were going past at upwards of 150mph. Hence why the first time we saw it on TV that there appeared to be existing tyre marks, and I recall someone here questioning why - it turns out he'd done it the lap before too, which is why he got two penalties.

When Mercedes said they saw where he was doing it (as opposed to just a little further forward than the designated area) they admitted they were worried, so it was hardly a shock to them.

 

[deuse]

Lets hope Hamilton reads the tracks rule book at the next races.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

He was given two 5 second penalties as he made two practice starts in the fast lane of the pit exit outside of the designated area and at a point where cars were going past at upwards of 150mph. Hence why the first time we saw it on TV that there appeared to be existing tyre marks, and I recall someone here questioning why - it turns out he'd done it the lap before too, which is why he got two penalties.

When Mercedes said they saw where he was doing it (as opposed to just a little further forward than the designated area) they admitted they were worried, so it was hardly a shock to them.

Kind of begs the question as to why someone of Hamiltons experience managed to breach the documented and well circulated/briefed stewards protocols on practice starts.

There's just something about it that doesent quite fit somehow.

 

[pallys]

Lets hope Hamilton reads the tracks rule book at the next races.

Yes not very cerebral is it - he should count himself lucky he driving a Mercedes Benz let alone be in F1.

Anyway, moving on.

He did nothing wrong according to the rule book. The event notes were very vague, after the white line on the right, Toto has said they'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
In Belgium they were very specific in the event notes what the designated area is for practive starts but in Sochi the event notes got looser.

Media are picking up why Leclerc wasn't punished for the exact same thing in Belgium that Masi reported Hamilton on.
Interesting that Salo (a steward in sochi) has been quoted saying Hamilton is full of ****. I bet Salo won't lose his stewardship over that? lets monitor.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton-paid-for-a-simple-error-so-why-didnt-leclerc/

https://www.motorlat.com/notas/f1/1...in-belgium-why-did-it-fall-into-oblivion/amp/

For those who don't have time to read it - its a long read;
In Belgium Leclerc was due to be punished for doing too slow a lap.
Masi said it was OK because Leclerc was doing a practice start after some line and that explained why he did a slow lap so was let off.
Yet in Sochi Masi said Hamilton broken a crystal clear rule, the same reasoning Masi used to clear Leclerc of his slow lap penalty.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Kind of begs the question as to why someone of Hamiltons experience managed to breach the documented and well circulated/briefed stewards protocols on practice starts.

There's just something about it that doesent quite fit somehow.

The documents were reasonably vague in their description and Hamilton is always looking for any edge he can find - he had a point, his grid box wasn't going to be rubbered in like the end of the pit lane was. He's so far ahead in the championship its basically irrelevant. I'm getting tired of the media bringing it up every two seconds for their view counts now.

 

[deuse]

snip.

"After looking at various clips, former F1 driver Doornbos observed that not doing practice starts in the designated area is something Hamilton often does. However, he has never missed it by as much as he did at Sochi."

“So Lewis always does it ten or 20 metres later, but this time he did it 200 metres later. All the way out of the pits. It’s an unusual spot and he was punished for that.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-practice-start-locations/

Sounds fair to me.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

"After looking at various clips, former F1 driver Doornbos observed that not doing practice starts in the designated area is something Hamilton often does. However, he has never missed it by as much as he did at Sochi."

“So Lewis always does it ten or 20 metres later, but this time he did it 200 metres later. All the way out of the pits. It’s an unusual spot and he was punished for that.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-practice-start-locations/

Sounds fair to me.

You missed the part where they removed as much of the punishment as they were able.

 

[pallys]

"After looking at various clips, former F1 driver Doornbos observed that not doing practice starts in the designated area is something Hamilton often does. However, he has never missed it by as much as he did at Sochi."

“So Lewis always does it ten or 20 metres later, but this time he did it 200 metres later. All the way out of the pits. It’s an unusual spot and he was punished for that.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-practice-start-locations/

Sounds fair to me.

Doornbos isn't correct, Toto explains it better - LINK

The event notes for Sochi said:

"Practice starts may only be carried out on the right-hand side after the pit exit lights and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any time the pit exit is open for the race. Drivers must leave adequate room on their left for another driver to pass."

I don't have the event notes for Belgium - but allegedly the distance was defined there and Leclerc did not do his practice start in that defined area. In fact thats what caused the timing trigger to start for Lecelerc and Masi had to investigate and said that was the reasonsing for Lerclerc posting a warm-up lap ~12 seconds too slow therefore it was OK.
If Leclerc got 2 penalties (1 for too slow a lap, the other for practice start outside of rigidly defined area) I'd be ok with Hamilton's penalty - even though the rule did not define it clearly enough at Sochi event notes.

Different rules for different people - is it any wonder Hamilton said what he did.

 

[deuse]

Doornbos isn't correct, Toto explains it better - LINK

The event notes for Sochi said:


I don't have the event notes for Belgium - but allegedly the distance was defined there and Leclerc did not do his practice start in that defined area. In fact thats what caused the timing trigger to start for Lecelerc and Masi had to investigate and said that was the reasonsing for Lerclerc posting a warm-up lap ~12 seconds too slow therefore it was OK.
If Leclerc got 2 penalties (1 for too slow a lap, the other for practice start outside of rigidly defined area) I'd be ok with Hamilton's penalty - even though the rule did not define it clearly enough at Sochi event notes.

Different rules for different people - is it any wonder Hamilton said what he did.

You missed the point.

At each track there is a marked out place for start practice.
Lewis always goes a bit beyond that.

And it was reported by a stewarded that he went 200m out because there was to much rubber down.
That's why he got the penalty. Even Merc said "we never knew he was that far out"

 

[deuse]

You missed the part where they removed as much of the punishment as they were able.

I never missed it because I never mentioned it.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I never missed it, I chose not to mention it.

Agreed.

 

[pallys]

You missed the point.

At each track there is a marked out place for start practice.
Lewis always goes a bit beyond that.

And it was reported by a stewarded that he went 200m out because there was to much rubber down.
That's why he got the penalty. Even Merc said "we never knew he was that far out"

Unfortunately each track is not marked out, thats only at circuit specific from what I've read.

The only point I'm making in the context of this thread is claiming that Hamilton is being treated differently using Leclerc's Belgium infringment as a reference point.

 

[Flibster]

From the Belgian Race Directors Event Notes

18) Practice starts

18.1 During each practice session, practice starts may only be carried out on the right-hand side after leaving the pit lane. These must be done prior to the SC2 line and with all four wheels between the white line on the right-hand edge of the pit exit and the wall.

18.2 During the time the pit exit is open for the race, practice starts may be carried out on the track after the pit exit before the SC2 line. Drivers wishing to carry out a practice start should stop wholly within the pit exit in order to allow other cars to pass on their left (the area bordered by red in the photograph on page 5). During this time any driver passing a car which has stopped to carry out a practice start may cross the white line that is referred to in 19.1 below.

18.3 For reasons of safety and sporting equity, cars may not stop in the fast lane at any time the pit exit is open without a justifiable reason (a practice start is not considered a justifiable reason).

Belgium has a limit on where they can be done, after leaving the pit lane but before the second safety car line.

So, yeah from the comparison with the previous races notes, Hamilton doing the starts in that position is absolutely fine. He was after the pit lane, space to his left and against the pit wall on the right.

 

[deuse]

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2...n_under_investigation_for_practice_start.html

Hamilton was way in front of where he was supposed to be.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

https://www.formula1.com/en/video/2...n_under_investigation_for_practice_start.html

Hamilton was way in front of where he was supposed to be.

It amazes me how much you care. Most of the penalty was retracted, he'll still win the WDC with a race or more to spare and is still taking home tens of millions. I get why the media outlets can't move on, there is no other news and it generates views, but I don't quite understand your obsession...

 

[this_is_gav]

So, yeah from the comparison with the previous races notes, Hamilton doing the starts in that position is absolutely fine. He was after the pit lane, space to his left and against the pit wall on the right.

How you can conclude that it's "absolutely fine" while referencing a completely different race track I don't know.

It's common sense. You can't have a car doing standing starts while cars just a few metres away are doing upwards of 150mph.

It was a misunderstanding between his team and him. They got punished accordingly.

 

[Flibster]

How you can conclude that it's "absolutely fine" while referencing a completely different race track I don't know.

It's common sense. You can't have a car doing standing starts while cars just a few metres away are doing upwards of 150mph.

It was a misunderstanding between his team and him. They got punished accordingly.

Race directors notes were inadequate. Only stated only on the right hand side after the pit exit lights and drivers must leave room on their left. Hamilton was on the right hand side, past the exit lights and left space to his left.
Leclerc was past the SC2 line and got no penalty, even though that was the limit cleared stated in the event notes for Belgium.

So how can one be ok and the other be against the rules? One driver followed what was written and the other didn't. Again, FIA's lack of consistency.

 

[Garido]

This is a recent article which perhaps better articulates my thoughts.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/sochi-controversies-exposed-hamiltons-most-divisive-trait/

 

[this_is_gav]

Race directors notes were inadequate. Only stated only on the right hand side after the pit exit lights and drivers must leave room on their left. Hamilton was on the right hand side, past the exit lights and left space to his left.

By that measure he could have done it anywhere around the track. Even Mercedes stated they were worried when they realised just how far Hamilton had gone.

Like I said, it's common sense and where Hamilton actually did his starts was a safety issue. You shouldn't need to spell it out exactly and a driver of his experience ought to have clarified it with his team.

If they'd done it once and they corrected him they might have got away with it on the grounds of a genuine misunderstanding while they double checked (they must have seen where he was on their telemetry), but doing it a second time just cemented the penalties.