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Isn't it possible that AMD will save it's most powerful GPU designs for 5nm TSMC fab process?

Soldato
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5nm TSMC fab process could be ready for wide spread use in a variety of products by 2021. I know many want to believe that 2020 is a great year to upgrade.

But, what if AMD was planning (and hoping) to use TSMC 5nm this year (or early 2021) for both CPUs and GPUs, but the yields were too low, the transistor densities weren't as high as expected (yet), or there was simply too much demand for TSMC 5nm (insufficient production capacity)?
 
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TrM

TrM

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Why rush to 5nm ? Why hold back a gpu when they can push it out now then do a mid cycle upgrade a 6900xt super duper edition:)

amd need to push out all there and 7nm give them all they need atm.
 
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By all reports TSMC 5nm seems to be coming along pretty well - looks like products will be using it sooner rather than later though the wafer cost is a touch eye-watering currently.
 
Soldato
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I wonder if AMD will bother with TSMC 7nm EUV next year, or if they will just use TSMC 5nm for most products.

According to this website, we still dont know what the transistor density for most TSMC 5nm (EUV) devices will be, but it's estimated to be ~171mm squared (this estimate is apparently for the improved N5P process).

Links:
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/5_nm_lithography_process#TSMC

https://www.techpowerup.com/264994/...transistor-density-gain-over-current-7nm-node

Samsung is getting ~126mm with their 5nm EUV fab process, not such a massive increase vs 7nm.
 
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Soldato
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I think AMD will probably be waiting for the TSMC N5P to be ready, which might not be that long. According to wikichip "Risk production for N5P is expected to start around the fourth quarter of 2020 with volume production starting sometimes in 2021". I think that means TSMC are probably selling the node to AMD (amongst others) already or soon, but its still not ready to be used in consumer products yet.
 
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Soldato
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Not going to happen for high end GPU's before some other products come out first.

If you understand how this tech works even only a tiny little bit you'd know why.

Not saying a 5nm can't be built in 2021, just saying that AMD or someone else needs to start scaling up 5nm chip sizes slowly - you don't jump from tiny mobile phone chips to 500mm2 GPU's, its a process.

More likely for 2021 is 5nm desktop CPUs
 
Soldato
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If you understand how this tech works even only a tiny little bit you'd know why.

What special knowledge do you have about 5nm and it's development :D

The process is called N5P. Similarly improved 7nm process nodes have been used for RDNA 2 console SOCs (GPU and CPU), called N7P. The actual name was N7e in this case, but I think its basically another DUV variant of N7P.

Multiple variants can be developed at the same time for GPUs and CPUs if needed.

Sorry, but your argument is garbage. Except for, perhaps CPUs will be given priority to use the 5nm fab process, before GPUs. This will help AMD compete with Intel in 2021, even as Intel finally (plans to) release 10nm based desktop CPUs.
 
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Soldato
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I don't think you'd see anyone in the rumour mill suggesting this, most people want 'good news' that meets their short term expectations.
 
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Soldato
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What special knowledge do you have about 5nm and it's development :D

The process is called N5P. Similarly improved 7nm process nodes have been used for RDNA 2 console SOCs (GPU and CPU), called N7P. The actual name was N7e in this case, but I think its basically another DUV variant of N7P.

Multiple variants can be developed at the same time for GPUs and CPUs if needed.

Sorry, but your argument is garbage. Except for, perhaps CPUs will be given priority to use the 5nm fab process, before GPUs. This will help AMD compete with Intel in 2021, even as Intel finally (plans to) release 10nm based desktop CPUs.

They start with smaller chips at first and move up on a brand new process, if you go large die first you asking for trouble, so they do cpu's first and maybe smaller gpu's, look back at all the new processes over time.

I think one of them or both tried large dies first and it back fired.
 
Soldato
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Well, actually the first AMD 7nm GPU - The Radeon VII, was released in February 2019, a few months before the release of the Ryzen 3000 CPU series in July 2019.

And that was a fairly new fab. process.

AMD also released the 7nm based rx 5700 series GPUs at the same time as the Ryzen 3000 series, in July 2019.

So, it can be done, at least in some cases.
 
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Soldato
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Seems like a good bet for 7900XT .... 12 month refresh with +15% clock speed. Get into some tick tock GPU releases
 
Soldato
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They start with smaller chips at first and move up on a brand new process, if you go large die first you asking for trouble, so they do cpu's first and maybe smaller gpu's, look back at all the new processes over time.

I think one of them or both tried large dies first and it back fired.
Aren't they going MCM on RDNA3 so each individual die will be a lot smaller in size then. Obviously they'll want to see decent yields but that probably would give them a bit more leeway
 
Soldato
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Well, actually the first AMD 7nm GPU - The Radeon VII, was released in February 2019, a few months before the release of the Ryzen 3000 CPU series in July 2019.

And that was a fairly new fab. process.

AMD also released the 7nm based rx 5700 series GPUs at the same time as the Rzen 3000 series, in July 2019.

So, it can be done, at least in some cases.

Yes in some cases and when they want to start making product's for that process they will do test wafers and judge the process then, normally mobiles chips go on a new process first as they are smaller and company's can gauge how good it is, if they can get that information.

Before smart phone's Amd or Nvidia would be some of the first to use a processes, now mobile phones company's like Apple are normally first because some of the dies are so small.

For Amd to go big first means the process is very good, 5nm looks like it is going to be a good process as well.

Amd need to gobble up a lot of the 5nm process if it is that good.
 
Soldato
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Aren't they going MCM on RDNA3 so each individual die will be a lot smaller in size then. Obviously they'll want to see decent yields but that probably would give them a bit more leeway

They want to do that but not sure if they ready, I hope they can get it to work.
 
Soldato
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They want to do that but not sure if they ready, I hope they can get it to work.
Hopefully it's another thing that the experience with Zen can be utilised. Obviously GPU's present a different challenge but if they can do that they'll put their architecture in a strong position...you never know, they may attempt the Threadripper of GPU's
 
Soldato
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Hopefully it's another thing that the experience with Zen can be utilised. Obviously GPU's present a different challenge but if they can do that they'll put their architecture in a strong position...you never know, they may attempt the Threadripper of GPU's

You would think but this is Amd you never know, they got the Cpu side running really good now they need to get the Gpu side of Amd firing on all cylinders.
We can hope as a good Amd Gpu shaking up the Gpu market helps all of consumers.
 
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