Is future totalitarian?

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The well being of all people isn't best served by distributing resources evenly, society is best served by incentivising innovation and risk and rewarding people who are the most economically productive. You think Jeff Bezos having so much money is ridiculous I bet. Amazon employs directly 800,000 people, so that's a city of people who are housed and fed by Amazon directly.

The Amazon salary is so low that most of the time the employees are on supplemental government programs because its below living wage. Taxpayers are paying for Bezos workers basically. Which is rewarded in this capitalist system. The more you can get away the better. I'm sure Bezos can line pockets of couple politicians in government to OK the project through. Its cheaper anyway. The ultimate end goal, you'll have few monopolies charging crap ton per product/service and paying their workers as little as possible.

Then they'll suck so much money from bottom/middle that no one will eve afford their products.

I find it hilarious that I am labelled a socialist or that I want to dismantle the system. I am literally proposing to do what Henry Ford did at the turn of the century when he drastically increased salary for his workers, cut working week and made job conditions better. Who in turn became his customers. He also offered an optional reward program if you lived a 'good life' aka non drinking. I mean holy mother of God, is this really communism?
 
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The Amazon salary is so low that most of the time the employees are on supplemental government programs because its below living wage. Taxpayers are paying for Bezos workers basically.

Which salary is that? There's a lot you see. Is £38k below the living wage for an Area Manager, or £60k for a Software Engineer? Maybe £21k isn't enough to live on for a Warehouse Operative?

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Amazon-Salaries-E6036.htm
 
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Which salary is that? There's a lot you see. Is £38k below the living wage for an Area Manager, or £60k for a Software Engineer? Maybe £21k isn't enough to live on for a Warehouse Operative?

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Amazon-Salaries-E6036.htm

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-employees-on-food-stamps-2018-8 I guess situation is not as bad in 'socialist Britain' as it is in 'free capitalist USA'. I wonder why.

But even here

https://www.theverge.com/interface/...on-delivery-delays-coronavirus-worker-strikes

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...rs-to-press-amazon-over-uk-working-conditions
 
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How many hours a week were the people on food stamps working? 40 hours or 20? It's pretty relevant information that isn't contained. They earn $15 an hour, plus can earn more with overtime. Now $15 is £11.48 an hour, on a 40 hour week that's £23,878 a year. Outside of a big city that's actually a decent wage, yet you're acting like they're being forced to work in Egypt in 2000 BC building the Pyramids while being whipped. It's laughable honestly.
 
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How many hours a week were the people on food stamps working? 40 hours or 20? It's pretty relevant information that isn't contained. They earn $15 an hour, plus can earn more with overtime. Now $15 is £11.48 an hour, on a 40 hour week that's £23,878 a year. Outside of a big city that's actually a decent wage, yet you're acting like they're being forced to work in Egypt in 2000 BC building the Pyramids while being whipped. It's laughable honestly.

Not trying to be funny, but have you actually ever worked in an amazon warehouse?

It is backbreaking work, depending on where you are on the line you will be lifting upto 25kg parcels every few seconds and shoving them on conveyer belts from ground level upto waist level or from head level down to ground level.

Its different variations of this depending where you may be on the line that day, this changes every single shift. I have worked within one of the newest amazon distribution centres in Suffolk and let me tell you its no joke.

I did two weeks myself while I was there on other business just so i could get a picture of how strenuous it was. I am fit and healthy, lifting this sort of weight is absolutely fine for me however the constant repetition and the sheer speed you are expected to do it at is extremely bad for your health.

Staff are frequently put on the most difficult parts of the line multiple days in a row. At the end of each shift you are beyond exhausted, I experienced this myself and after speaking to many it was the same across the board. The shift pattersn are 10 hours long with one half hour break, you work half of that shift before you go on break, you will be lifting and moving that weight every few seconds for a constant period of at least 5 hours before a rest period. Like I said above its extremely exhausting.

Adding onto this you are expected to be available on "days off" for standby where you can be asked to turn up for shifts at short notice. Standby basically means you are going to be working.

I find it hilarious you think that it is so easy for people to just do "overtime" like its an easy decision or good for their health. It is difficult enough for people to utilise their time off bettering themselves let alone do any overtime due to exhaustion. Unfortunately many people find themselves in circumstances that require them to work these jobs and then find it really hard to get out of due to lack of time/money/energy.

This is in the UK, in the US it its a dismal experience, it may not be ancient Egypt but it is horrible.

I know this is not a response directly related to the questions/ideas in the topic however I really just wanted to clarify the above to you and anyone else.
 
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How many hours a week were the people on food stamps working? 40 hours or 20? It's pretty relevant information that isn't contained. They earn $15 an hour, plus can earn more with overtime. Now $15 is £11.48 an hour, on a 40 hour week that's £23,878 a year. Outside of a big city that's actually a decent wage, yet you're acting like they're being forced to work in Egypt in 2000 BC building the Pyramids while being whipped. It's laughable honestly.


I’m more familair with USA since I moved a while ago.

Warehouse worker wage in amazon is $15 per hour. Full time 40hr will make $24 000 a year (slightly above) gross. In America where you have to pay deductibles for health care and $5000 buys you a 15 year old corolla with 150k miles - and you need car to survive. Its really not that much.

As a reference please see this

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/datasets/il/il15/FY2015_IL_il.pdf

This amazon job will qualify as ‘low income’ and will give you a section8 voucher aka coupon to pay for your rent. This is also older so now numbers are even higher. IL is pretty cheap state, even Chicago is cheap for metro.

I’m not going into deals if family with two working parents works this job and how that will go with 1-2 children. Given that childcare at best will take out $1000 per child a month. In Chicago it goes for $2400. NYC is some obsene amount.

This is before we go into college territory for your children. There are options including being great at sports and hoping some college will give you a rider. But reality is that your options will be very limited if your parents are not welthy and dont have good credit score/income. The loan is put in your parents name, not yours. Well some is in your name but its minor.

Please also factor in that this Amazon job is ‘elite’ because its 50% above minimum wage of $10 and actually offers health insurance. Though with high deductible
 
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Correct. And the excuse is what?

1)
That even at $20 which requires bachelor degree - its still so small that you’ll struggle to raise a family with two working parents.

2) Per above reference of IL HUD - At $20 you’d still be considered ‘low income’ Therefore qualify for government rent subsidy cause you will struggle to afford it.

America is expensive, food, cars, health, property taxes, kids education, child-care etc money disappears fast
 

RxR

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"Is Future Totalitarian?". No, except perhaps for the Chinese - which is their unchanged tradition for at least hundreds of years. Only the singer changes, the song remains the same.
 
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A person’s will and determination will decide if they make $15/$20/$200 per hour

Jesus, what a lala land you live in. Maybe you should visit south/west chicago or other metro area with generational income and crime issues. Crap schools and drugs, look those kids in eye and tell them that. Its just up to them and thats all that matters.
 
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But it mostly is mate.

Like I said in my post I only posted what I did to clarify the point of overtime to Roar, I am not interested in debating with you if its a persons will or determination as to why they may be stuck in that job.

It really isn't that black and white and in my opinion it is naïve to believe it is that simple. Individual circumstances will often lead to people being stuck in positions where the ability to scale up and out of their predicament is extremely difficult.

It is not as simple as they are not determined etc.

I appreciate your opinion but i completely disagree.
 
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I used to live near Chicago.
I’m not responsible for a child’s poor upbringing where they’re in south side Chicago or a trailer park outside Detroit.
Don’t give me that “at risk children” bs.
Drugs and violence are a way of life for some people.
I have no sympathy for irresponsible people

So you dont think its slightly issue of system that these kids are stuck with crap schools, teachers, role models. That give them no life skills and then you have companies like amazon using billions in marketing to influence them.

Its easy to be non influenced if you grew up in good environment with good eduction which allows for critical thinking.

Great to call everyone dumb and lacking in motivation when capacity for both of those were gifted to you at young age. Meanwhile less fortunate did not.

Motivation, critical thinking, is not given at birth. Its developed.
 

RxR

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So you dont think its slightly issue of system that these kids are stuck with crap schools, teachers, role models. That give them no life skills and then you have companies like amazon using billions in marketing to influence them.

Its easy to be non influenced if you grew up in good environment with good eduction which allows for critical thinking.

Great to call everyone dumb and lacking in motivation when capacity for both of those were gifted to you at young age. Meanwhile less fortunate did not.

Motivation, critical thinking, is not given at birth. Its developed.

Your thinking on the bases of motivation and critical thinking is too bland / does not correspond with the known facts of nature. Intelligence (a precondition for higher-level) critical thinking is, in the main, inherited.

It is possible to raise some forms of intelligence by (external) training, education or enrichment, but not enough to double it (to the lower high-end).
 
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Your thinking on the bases of motivation and critical thinking is too bland / does not correspond with the known facts of nature. Intelligence (a precondition for higher-level) critical thinking is, in the main, inherited.

It is possible to raise some forms of intelligence by training, education or enrichment, but not enough to double it (to the lower high-end).

So hitler eugenics? Got it. People are either born smart or dumb. Nothing else much matters. Ghetto is going to ghetto cause their ‘slave genes’ are dumbos.

Sorry I see no point longer discussing this. I think this is an absolute disgusting viewpoint.

I just find it ridiculous that you say its all about how motivated you are and world is in your hands. Then go on saying that you are born with these parameters and yet seem to complain about the ‘ghetto’ being ghetto and stupid and un motivated. Though later you say your born with it and therefore cant control it.
 
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So hitler eugenics? Got it. People are either born smart or dumb. Nothing else much matters. Ghetto is going to ghetto cause their ‘slave genes’ are dumbos.

Sorry I see no point longer discussing this. I think this is an absolute disgusting viewpoint.

I don't think that is quite what he said, not that I agree with him. He is just stating that he believes as a whole Intelligence is inherited, I personally don't think its that black and white.

I think RxR is completely missing your argument too so there is 100% some miscommunication here lol.
 

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So hitler eugenics? Got it. People are either born smart or dumb. Nothing else much matters. Ghetto is going to ghetto cause their ‘slave genes’ are dumbos.

Sorry I see no point longer discussing this. I think this is an absolute disgusting viewpoint.

Indeed. Small minds lack grit.
 
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I don't think that is quite what he said, not that I agree with him. He is just stating that he believes as a whole Intelligence is inherited, I personally don't think its that black and white.

I think RxR is completely missing your argument too so there is 100% some miscommunication here lol.

nope, look above at his response. Dude is full on Nazi.
 
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Would you elaborate more on your ideas of inherited intelligence? If possible relate it to the OP's points about how companies utilise human capital(potential) etc.

I don't want to go off topic, as it seems we have a bit.

Its very simple. He believes that basically majority of people who are not wealthy/successful are dumb and lacking in motivation.

Furthermore he believes that you are born with both and cant be taught. Therefore there is zero point wasting resources on ‘small minds’ as they will forever be useless. Therefore justifying bad schools in ghettos and lack of any investment. Because in his mind all those people are essentially genetic trash.

The reality is that even if he is right which I do not think he is. Its just an absolute disgusting view of world that I do not agree with.
 
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