The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Soldato
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ZRL off to a good start.
We got 1/2 on all the primes and some other placings.
Then we got 1/3/10/11/15 in the finish.

Not seen results yet but reckon we will be top 3 in all community for sure.

We won the PL TTT last week as our first week back in it. Beat 4 teams who are in the PL for ZRL. So looking good for us to do well in S1 and get promoted up to the PL next season.

I see Roady is planning to ride in ZRL. Anyone else not fancying it? - https://wtrl.racing/zrl/Zwift-Racing-League.php
 
Soldato
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Flat as a tack tonight, knew it before I even got on the trainer. No kick and the numbers reflected that. Pity as I thought it was a little easier and I could have podium’d B.

As it was I had an attack of the Gavirias put out some decent watts for all of 5 seconds and then sat down and rolled in at +3 seconds :o

Maybe I need to ride more than the 4 hours a week I’ve been doing to think about being competitive in reality!
 
Soldato
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a lot of people recommend air-blower fan (that looks like a snail) instead of a traditional fan:
https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t...lasko-fan-check-this-out-thanks-to-hugo1/9554
I saw that and used their discount code (TRAINERROAD10 to get 10% off) - it's a monster and shifts a LOAD of air. Googling Zwift and Vacmaster has a lot of results, so it's pretty popular. But, as I've been busy with mtb and diy in the house, I have to admit I'm yet to use it in anger myself.
Really great read, thanks for sharing! I had no idea about these kinda things being great for indoor training. I mean I was aware of them but hadn't appreciated how different they where to a 'classic' fan, so never looked futher!

Can you mount this on the wall/ceiling?
My Honeywell? Would be easy to mount on wall/ceiling as the base has little thing to pop over screw heads. Think it may even have come with screws. Although I'll go back and say it's not really worth the money unless you had no option but to wall mount one. Even then the base can only be angled between I think 45 degrees, not the whole 360/180 you otherwise think with the base. So the way I've got mine set the control is 'reversed' away from me to get the angle, so I can't 'see' it. Not a problem though as only 3-4 settings so easy to do without viewing.

I see Roady is planning to ride in ZRL. Anyone else not fancying it? - https://wtrl.racing/zrl/Zwift-Racing-League.php
Got signed up to help an A team out as they where short 1 rider to make up the minimum. Just rolling around the back of the A race and finishing would have got them a point. But didn't need me in the end so go drafted into a B team instead, then promptly missed the start due to technology. Maybe next week or when I next get time/need a tuesday ride (generally only when I've had an easier weekend).

Maybe I need to ride more than the 4 hours a week I’ve been doing to think about being competitive in reality!
It's really tough, I really feel I'd need to be riding more than the ~6h I do a week to really progress up towards being a competitive B. I think I can easily get my FTP to around 260-270W with a bit better rest and some better structure. But my weight (77/78kg) isn't really dropping as most of my Zwifting is more power riding than the endurance I was doing before and over the colder months I just don't ride enough outside to trim back to where I used to be (74-75kg). So my w/kg suffers or is very similar to when my FTP was lower, but I had less 'baggage'.

https://www.strava.com/activities/4199696689
WTRL TTT last night was great. Allowed myself extra time to avoid any technical glitches and only a +7 minute wait. Hard ride and blew myself up in the last 0.8km at around 200m to go, but supreme numbers and effort considering I'm more fatigued than I would have liked, a bit lower on fitness after a more sporadic couple of weeks where I've missed it and had only around 4 hours sleep the night before. So glad I got a good ride in, pleasantly surprised by the numbers and felt strong. Been on a bit of a depressed/downer the last couple of weeks and now on a bit more of a high. Always good! :cool:
 
Soldato
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I don't think I'm even getting 4 hours a week some weeks. Hopefully thay changes once I move house. Would be good to do the zwift series but can't guarantee I'd get on for them all.

Planning on focusing training towards time trials as that may be all the racing we can get next year. 323w for 25 minutes earlier on zwift.
 
Soldato
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Good choice on turbo and your setup sounds good. Very similar to what I'm using and have used a good few years. I have an Ikea 'sideboard' type thing which became spare with it sat on, works really well as with the middle shelves taken out the front wheel kinda pokes into it so I can get closer to the older 42" samsung I'm using. It's stable too and has the screen a good height 'up' so it's out of the way of stuff. There's lots of other ways to hold things, I worked from a laptop on a collapsible 'workmate' sawbench type thing. Was looking at the specific floor stand for my TV, then mount the fan & laptop on it some how but far cheaper the way I ended up.

Mat will give you a bit more 'feel' and probably less vibration when you're riding. It'll also keep the trainer & bike more stationary than a solid floor will. Other benefits like wiping down are less needed in a garage but still useful. Mine is on a concrete floor and being that bit raised it seems to attract less of the general floor dust & dirt that the rest of the garage does (although it 'looks' worse as its black!).

Start with the tower fan and see how you get on. Really depends on the type of rider, the type of riding and even the airflow in your garage you'll get with 1 fan. I've ended up with 3 fans, although through most of the winter will be only running the smaller 2. My setup is fairly central, with my screen towards the wall. I'm away from the doorway so I don't get direct airflow (so in the winter I can still have the door open and not get too cold, while still being able to place a fan that side to get easy additional airflow in the summer), and avoid much of the movement of stuff in & out (+ dirt) from the doorway. That way I also have lots of space around me which really helps not to feel enclosed. I have structured my garage around my setup to a certain extent, but you might not be so lucky with options.

Obviously. But then if you're paying over the odds for a trainer why not splash out on a matching mat... ;)

I'm using some cheapy PX probably <£20 'Sportscrafter' mat. It's seen better days. Maybe I'll buy a new branded Wahoo one when I get around to upgrading to a Core... ;).
Thanks for the detailed response Roady, apologies for the delayed reply.

How are you getting on with your Kickr Core? I think I will get a mat, perhaps not the Wahoo one if I'm already spending £700 on the turbo though! Do you use or feel the need for a wheel block with your setup? I've read mixed opinions... I'm very much an endurance bike type of rider rather than a flat-backed full on racer, i transitioned to road cycling from mountain biking and my back is knackered currently so I'm thinking the more uplift at the front the better!
 
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Soldato
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I don't think I'm even getting 4 hours a week some weeks. Hopefully thay changes once I move house. Would be good to do the zwift series but can't guarantee I'd get on for them all.

Planning on focusing training towards time trials as that may be all the racing we can get next year. 323w for 25 minutes earlier on zwift.
Ahh, but of my 6h, 3-4h of that is commuting! I'm generally only getting 2 sub 1hr sessions in a week. Some weeks I'll do a 3 hour ride outside, other weekends (like one just gone) I skip it and intend to do something on Zwift... Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't! A year ago I was doing far more weekend 2-3 hour sessions on Zwift, but I wasn't riding/racing twice in the week...

Most of the Zwift series' you can dip in and out, think most you have to ride say 8 of the 10 rides for a GC place, or top 8 results kinda thing. Although that differs between them all as there's so many. The most recent 3R Sundown series didn't have an individual GC, only a Team one with only the results of the top 4/6 riders for each team contributing to points.

The TTT you would absolutely love, I'd happily recruit you into 3R if you wanted to really push yourself and your training (same goes for anyone really!). We field 8-10 teams across all time zones and CATs so are probably one of the larger (this week have 62 riders already signed up), but that does make it very easy to get matched to a team of similar/better ability in the popular time slots rather than having an easy ride when you've got a slow rider or two along... We fielded 10 teams last week (2x PL (A A+, A B), 6x (A B), 2x (C)). Our signup sheet shows we have a pool of 324 riders, which is an insane number! 63 signed up for Thursday already!) :o

Some Teams are quite serious, having 'training rides' a couple of times a week (on course as a team), most less so. The group I ride with (Fall Out Boy), generally are one of the most mixed of groups with a changing line-up week to week, only coming together in the TTT. Our group was generally setup for those who where 'not quite' at the front of B with mostly C riders, but recently has been mixed B's with a couple of A's returning to riding/new to A/new to TT'ing. There's really very few C and D riders around this year in 3R (although we still field a team or two), just so many riders riding more and more due to enjoyment/well organised/lockdown that everyone's progressed up to B (even me!). :D

Thanks for the detailed response Roady, apologies for the delayed reply.

How are you getting on with your Kickr Core? I think I will get a mat, perhaps not the Wahoo one if I'm already spending £700 on the turbo though! Do you use or feel the need for a wheel block with your setup? I've read mixed opinions... I'm very much an endurance bike type of rider rather than a flat-backed full on racer, i transitioned to road cycling from mountain biking and my back is knackered currently so I'm thinking the more uplift at the front the better!
Ahh you misunderstood, I don't have a Core, currently on a V1 Flux which is going well (Just serviced it myself, changed tension arm and belt!). When/if I get any issue I think the only trainer I would change it for is a Core. The Neo although would be my primary choice, I couldn't really justify that expense on a trainer (currently!).

I used to use a riser block with mine but removed it a couple of years ago to eliminate noises when sprinting (and my kid was asleep!). I've never reinstated it and don't miss it. Only time I might is if I was doing more specific hill racing/efforts to train for something hilly. Last time I tweaked my position I actually slammed it a little more than my road position as I do find myself sitting more upright on the turbo than I do with my road position. It's worked, I'm more flexible than I was. Previously I raced less and concentrated on position more when doing endurance rides, I would ride quite a bit (30-40%) on aerobars in a semi-tuck. That also helped quite a bit with my position/flexibility too but sometimes would get a bad back/shoulder a few days after a longer session. So when stepping up my racing (and dropping the endurance riding) this year through lockdown I'd got a little less flexible and wanted to bring it back. :D

I've found it very easy to play around with position when indoors (and I don't just mean while you're riding)! I've found myself generally riding more sat up, but then I'll suffer with saddle sores more when doing a longer session (I'm guessing I'm less conscious of sitting heavily as I'm distracted), but I can equally ride quite tucked, skipping the sores and only slightly less comfort. For me getting myself to rest more weight on my arms (as I do on the road) is key to my comfort. I'll probably get more into endurance riding again over winter, so will be back on the aerobars more, but that's mostly again and easy way to keep weight on my arms, pressure off the saddle to reduce soreness on longer rides (change of position on saddle obviously helps a huge amount). I may need to reduce the bar drop then. :rolleyes:
 
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Soldato
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Ahh you misunderstood, I don't have a Core, currently on a V1 Flux...

I used to use a riser block with mine but removed it a couple of years ago...
Ah ok no worries. Any Kickr Core users here use a front wheel block? I'm thinking I'll start without one and see how I get on. They don't supply one with it, not sure if that's because the position of the bike when fitted to the trainer is similar to on the road, or because they're just stingy!

I need a cassette too, am I right in thinking that a used (around 2000 miles) chain on a new cassette isn't such a great idea though? Thinking that as I'm unlikley to be on the road through winter I'll just take the one from my bike and fit that to begin with.
 
Soldato
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Ah ok no worries. Any Kickr Core users here use a front wheel block? I'm thinking I'll start without one and see how I get on. They don't supply one with it, not sure if that's because the position of the bike when fitted to the trainer is similar to on the road, or because they're just stingy!

I need a cassette too, am I right in thinking that a used (around 2000 miles) chain on a new cassette isn't such a great idea though? Thinking that as I'm unlikley to be on the road through winter I'll just take the one from my bike and fit that to begin with.

Don't need a riser with the Kickr's bud :) None of them come with them. Totally personal pref if you want to use one but they don't need them.

Chain wear tool. If it's not stretched on the wear tool and you've taken good care of it then it will be absolutely fine on a new cassette. However, for the sake of £20 I would just put a brand new chain on the new cassette and feel all good about it :)
 
Soldato
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Don't need a riser with the Kickr's bud :) None of them come with them. Totally personal pref if you want to use one but they don't need them.

Chain wear tool. If it's not stretched on the wear tool and you've taken good care of it then it will be absolutely fine on a new cassette. However, for the sake of £20 I would just put a brand new chain on the new cassette and feel all good about it :)
Thanks xdcx, all noted :)

Wondering if I should pull the trigger now or wait for Black Friday in a month. Kickr Core stock seems to be limited so assuming any deals retailers do at the end of Nov will be snapped up pretty quickly. That said, we'll probably be in full lockdown again by then so I'll need something to keep me occupied! :p
 
Soldato
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Thanks xdcx, all noted :)

Wondering if I should pull the trigger now or wait for Black Friday in a month. Kickr Core stock seems to be limited so assuming any deals retailers do at the end of Nov will be snapped up pretty quickly. That said, we'll probably be in full lockdown again by then so I'll need something to keep me occupied! :p

I don't know this for sure of course. But based on the short supply of basically ANYTHING bike related and especially smart trainers.... I do not think there will be deals to be had. They are sold out almost everywhere for months even at RRP prices. So if you find stock I would honestly just buy one as I don't think they will be reduced/offers prior to winter kicking in this year.

I could be totally wrong! But if it was me, I'd just be getting one because they'll be impossible to get if not already impossible to get.

I'd look for a 2017/2018 second hand Kickr over a Core. But I bet people are selling those second hand for silly money due to demand anyways.
 
Associate
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Is it normal for average race power to be quite a bit below ftp? Is that just the nature of pushing over ftp to stay with groups..etc? Does that mean I push too hard and should have a more controlled pace?
 
Soldato
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Is it normal for average race power to be quite a bit below ftp? Is that just the nature of pushing over ftp to stay with groups..etc? Does that mean I push too hard and should have a more controlled pace?

What are you determining as your FTP? 20min power or 60min power?
But yes, in a race of 30-60mins you will average less than even your best 20min power because you are not constantly on the pedals/at threshold. You are going over/under threshold but will do way more time on the under part.

Only race you will see your avg or NP near/above your 20mins is in a TT where you are riding physically on the best power you know you can do for a set time frame.

My FTP is 322w (for the hour) but in even the hardest A+ races I will average only around 310-315w for 45-60min races. And that avg is derived from 450-600w spells amongst the majority 250-280w sitting in bunch.
 
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What are you determining as your FTP? 20min power or 60min power?
But yes, in a race of 30-60mins you will average less than even your best 20min power because you are not constantly on the pedals/at threshold. You are going over/under threshold but will do way more time on the under part.

Only race you will see your avg or NP near/above your 20mins is in a TT where you are riding physically on the best power you know you can do for a set time frame.

My FTP is 322w (for the hour) but in even the hardest A+ races I will average only around 310-315w for 45-60min races. And that avg is derived from 450-600w spells amongst the majority 250-280w sitting in bunch.

Thank you. Ftp is from 20 minute test and is a lowly 223 . I’ve been trying to stay with groups as I’ve heard the drafting helps a lot with speed (even though it doesn’t make it easier to pedal). I do find the races give a nice change from doing training sessions, even if several of the D class racers have a W/kg over 3 or even 3.5!

I’m targeting an ftp of 250 for the spring as living near the chilterns gives some really beautiful routes, but the 10-15% hills really hurt last year.
 
Soldato
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I see Roady is planning to ride in ZRL. Anyone else not fancying it? - https://wtrl.racing/zrl/Zwift-Racing-League.php
Good ride last night buddy, how did it go? 325W avg, nice! :o

https://www.strava.com/activities/4221582696/

Mine was quite a bit less... But still good numbers for me! :D

I found that quite an 'easy' course, but was suddenly riding it with a 6 man team I'd only ridden with 2 of before - with 2/3 others who either hadn't ridden a TTT or not for a long time. We where a mixture of abilities and 'skills', yet good voice communication (Discord) and a good lead really kept us slick. As the ability was below the usual TTT team I ride with on Thursdays (and am again tonight... Dual TTT week! :o) I figured I'd stick every rotation and the pulls being 'only' 3.8-4w/kg figured I'd only be riding at 70-80%. I was mostly right... Only having a couple of gaps to close (my usual task) as well as leading rotation from the start pen.

Start was a bit of a mess-up, we struggled to group well out of the pen, only for me to be measuring my effort a little on the front allowing group to gather... To then losing all riders on screen. Realised I was still attached to the wrong wifi network I quickly switched it, somehow maintaining 4.5w/kg out of the pen, to then appear 5s up the road from the group. I eased and got them on my wheel, continued my turn till the 2 minute marker. Glad that worked out! :D

Turns went well, first from pen @290W, second @309W, third @307W, I was actually finding my turns slightly extended as having a stronger rider behind me I was generally putting another 10-20s effort in to sit on his wheel to stop a gap opening. Then the fourth @318W actually got elongated to nearly 3 minutes as on the climb had to sustain effort to keep group together. That one hurt! Fifth @312W we entered the latter part of the course - with things getting more rolling I was surging to close gaps. 9 minutes at pretty much FTP/100% effort without much recovery. Final was tricky, I'd figured by our rotation that I wouldn't get a final turn, so just continued that effort. To then have someone bail out of his turn and me suddenly needing to do a final turn! I'd got some brief respite before on a downhill, did my turn over the final lump but did need to ease over the top to keep group together. After the next turn as the finish rapidly approached I called the strongest guy to my wheel (who I'd been closing gaps to before) and just told him to stick on me and went HARD, Ackers managed to stick with me, somehow the group stuck on his wheel and I only died in the last 100m.

Hit 190BPM from that effort, my max for a while, probably from being a little rested from not riding all weekend. Still quite surprised my HR was that high for the latter half as didn't feel I went that deep until the final! :o :D
 
Soldato
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Nice effort @Roady and glad to see you getting stuck in and getting a lot from the ZRL. It's a godsend to the platform IMO.

We came 6th overall from all the divisions including the Premier League. Only 2 PL teams beat us!
I knew we would be up there so had everyone dual record on this one because when you are beating some of these "pro esports" teams they get proper arsey and start pointing fingers.... So here is mine - https://www.zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=63575
Just shy of 5.2WKG for the 30mins. Not that high compared what I've done on solo TT's and that but when you consider that's with 5 other blokes and meant to be "recoveries" in there, shows you how ridiculous these TTT are! We had more 450w+ type guys so even when I am doing high 6's into 7WKG I am barely able to come through for turns. It is just bonkers.

Jadon Jaeger on our squad just qualified to represent USA in the erace world champs. He will be out of comp tested and has to let USADA know his whereabouts all the time for doping control and everything :p Shows how serious erace stuff is now with UCI giving it proper status.

We were 1st a fortnight ago and 2nd last week in platinum league TTT. Strong squad tonight, almost full strength, so hoping we can take it again this week.
 
Soldato
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Ah ok no worries. Any Kickr Core users here use a front wheel block? I'm thinking I'll start without one and see how I get on. They don't supply one with it, not sure if that's because the position of the bike when fitted to the trainer is similar to on the road, or because they're just stingy!

I need a cassette too, am I right in thinking that a used (around 2000 miles) chain on a new cassette isn't such a great idea though? Thinking that as I'm unlikley to be on the road through winter I'll just take the one from my bike and fit that to begin with.
Don't worry about front riser. I think most of the modern direct drives are generally designed to be used without.

Chain will probably be ok, but as xdcx may be worth getting a new. Especially if the mew cassette and chain are only staying on the turbo and not venturing outside. They last a long time inside so better they age together.

Thanks xdcx, all noted :)

Wondering if I should pull the trigger now or wait for Black Friday in a month. Kickr Core stock seems to be limited so assuming any deals retailers do at the end of Nov will be snapped up pretty quickly. That said, we'll probably be in full lockdown again by then so I'll need something to keep me occupied! :p
Do it! Silly not to get one now if you can, as mentioned! Really doubt we'll see much for Black Friday.

I don't know this for sure of course. But based on the short supply of basically ANYTHING bike related and especially smart trainers.... I do not think there will be deals to be had. They are sold out almost everywhere for months even at RRP prices. So if you find stock I would honestly just buy one as I don't think they will be reduced/offers prior to winter kicking in this year.
I could have sold my 3 year old Tacx Flux for +£100 more than I paid for it this year! :rolleyes:

Is it normal for average race power to be quite a bit below ftp? Is that just the nature of pushing over ftp to stay with groups..etc? Does that mean I push too hard and should have a more controlled pace?
Yes, racing is all about efforts/surging/recover. Those who can recover best, sit in riding easy and then go harder when required are generally the winners. Not those with high FTP's and sustained high power averages. 'Racecraft'.

My FTP is 322w (for the hour) but in even the hardest A+ races I will average only around 310-315w for 45-60min races. And that avg is derived from 450-600w spells amongst the majority 250-280w sitting in bunch.
My FTP is around 260W (currently) and its only the TTT's where I come even close to that for a ride average if you look at my races from the last few weeks (admittedly most are TTT's at the moment!) - https://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=52661

I’m targeting an ftp of 250 for the spring as living near the chilterns gives some really beautiful routes, but the 10-15% hills really hurt last year.
They always hurt! Goodluck and good to have some targets like that. Well done and keep it up! :D
 
Soldato
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My numbers slowly reducing compared to summer! :o still riding B and doing OK. Sore legs tonight following racing.

Not had any problems touch wood since I started taking power direct from my power meter instead of the Neo...
 
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