When are you going fully electric?

sovietspybob · 26 Oct 2020 at 09:23

Thought this was an interesting watch.

It's fairly in depth but it made internal resistance of batteries make a lot more sense to me, i always love his videos as i think he explains things well.

[TW]Fox · 26 Oct 2020 at 09:29

Bravetart said:
They've installed though, so now all good! As long as the neighbours aren't dicks about it.

I mean to be fair you're the one dragging a cable over the path all the time, not them...

bimbleuk · 26 Oct 2020 at 09:49

sovietspybob said:
Thought this was an interesting watch.

It's fairly in depth but it made internal resistance of batteries make a lot more sense to me, i always love his videos as i think he explains things well.

Same here thought I had a pretty good understanding but still learnt a few things from this.

I think this is the vid where I learnt that pouch batteries were technically better but the 4680 tabless design addressed the cylindrical weaknesses and so now has more advantages.

jpaul · 26 Oct 2020 at 10:40

bimbleuk said:
I think this is the vid where I learnt that pouch batteries were technically better but the 4680 tabless design addressed the cylindrical weaknesses and so now has more advantages.

but, despite the cylindrical improvements, pouch seems technically better, so why don't they change ? manufacturing cost(cutting/folding pouch sheets versus rolling) ? existing investmement in plant ?
packing density of pouch would seem to be superior, maybe heat dissipation is more problematic though.

Bravetart · 26 Oct 2020 at 10:44

[TW]Fox said:
I mean to be fair you're the one dragging a cable over the path all the time, not them...

Fair comment but you expect people to have some understanding. It's untethered so it will only be dragging when charging, it's not all the time. Also ordered a cable ramp and there will be a motion sensor and light.

The path is just for garden access for the two properties, not a public path.

bimbleuk · 26 Oct 2020 at 12:35

jpaul said:
but, despite the cylindrical improvements, pouch seems technically better, so why don't they change ? manufacturing cost(cutting/folding pouch sheets versus rolling) ? existing investmement in plant ?
packing density of pouch would seem to be superior, maybe heat dissipation is more problematic though.

Historically Tesla used "off the shelf" battery cells to make up the roadster battery packs. Then they do seem excel at taking something that appears less than ideal on paper and then making it work to their advantage. Not an expert but I believe pouch style cells expand more and that probably wouldn't work so well with Tesla's idea to make the cell part of the cars structure not just a bunch of modules bolted in a box.

kosymodo · 26 Oct 2020 at 12:45

I'd love to be able to go EV right now, but financial circumstances dicatate otherwise...quite like the look of the e-208, but my heart is set on a Tesla M3

bimbleuk · 26 Oct 2020 at 13:50

kosymodo said:
I'd love to be able to go EV right now, but financial circumstances dicatate otherwise...quite like the look of the e-208, but my heart is set on a Tesla M3

Don't worry the market is changing very quickly and I can't believe my Model 3 (2019) is now out dated and by the end of next year will not even be close to how the new ones will potentially be manufactured in the new Berlin Giga factory. Just think die cast on a 1:1 scale

I also suspect we will start to see more Chinese cars either badged like the Polestar 2 or with new brands like Xpeng, NIO, BYD, BAIC "Beijing" and the list goes on.

kosymodo · 26 Oct 2020 at 14:22

bimbleuk said:
Don't worry the market is changing very quickly and I can't believe my Model 3 (2019) is now out dated and by the end of next year will not even be close to how the new ones will potentially be manufactured in the new Berlin Giga factory. Just think die cast on a 1:1 scale

I also suspect we will start to see more Chinese cars either badged like the Polestar 2 or with new brands like Xpeng, NIO, BYD, BAIC "Beijing" and the list goes on.

All very true - things change so quickly! Once a lot more of the mainstream manufacturers come on board properly with EVs, things will move even quicker...it's an exciting place to be right now!

bimbleuk · 26 Oct 2020 at 16:56

kosymodo said:
All very true - things change so quickly! Once a lot more of the mainstream manufacturers come on board properly with EVs, things will move even quicker...it's an exciting place to be right now!

Even the Model 3 will start to come from China now.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/10/26/7000-china-made-tesla-model-3s-headed-to-europe-pictures/

kosymodo · 26 Oct 2020 at 17:00

bimbleuk said:
Even the Model 3 will start to come from China now.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/10/26/7000-china-made-tesla-model-3s-headed-to-europe-pictures/

Wow, I missed this... Says a lot when it's cheap enough for Tesla to ship from China, rather than assemble closer to home

Jonnycoupe · 26 Oct 2020 at 17:20

kosymodo said:
Wow, I missed this... Says a lot when it's cheap enough for Tesla to ship from China, rather than assemble closer to home

They are still building Giga Berlin... the europe Model 3 was coming from America anyway. Berlin is likely to be Model Y only with rumoured 4680 cell intro.

kosymodo · 26 Oct 2020 at 17:20

Jonnycoupe said:
They are still building Giga Berlin... the europe Model 3 was coming from America anyway. Berlin is likely to be Model Y only with rumoured 4680 cell intro.

Thanks for clarifying

bimbleuk · 26 Oct 2020 at 18:08

kosymodo said:
Thanks for clarifying

Tesla are pushing for the big 500,000 delivers still and they can achieve this by using spare capacity at the China factory. Plus they can use the LFP batteries being supplied by CATL. At one point LFP would have been see as a poor option but again it seems they are still improving the chemistry and packaging to get even more range in the base model. I'd like to see the weight though just for comparison.

RHD likely to come from California for now until Giga Berlin gets going but I assume the China cars are also getting the heat pump fitted so maybe that's helping to boost the range with LFP. I think I also read somewhere the LFP batteries perform best with a weekly 100% charge where I might only charge my NMC battery once a month so the app and BMS percentages match. They drift a bit with daily part charging.

Quite frankly it's getting damn hard to nail down the spec of the cars now

sovietspybob · 26 Oct 2020 at 19:10

I think I'd prefer a Chinese SR+ with the LFP batteries myself over an American built car if i was in the market for one right now, not that it appears to be an option for us, just musing.

Otherwise it'd be wise to hold off until you can get either a Y or a 3 down the line with 4680 cells but that could be what, 12-18months away?

kosymodo · 26 Oct 2020 at 19:13

sovietspybob said:
I think I'd prefer a Chinese SR+ with the LFP batteries myself over an American built car if i was in the market for one right now, not that it appears to be an option for us, just musing.

Otherwise it'd be wise to hold off until you can get either a Y or a 3 down the line with 4680 cells but that could be what, 12-18months away?

12-18mths wouldn't be an issue for me personally! There'll always be something else around the corner though, no matter when one buys

DarrenM343 · 26 Oct 2020 at 19:14

sovietspybob said:
I think I'd prefer a Chinese SR+ with the LFP batteries myself over an American built car if i was in the market for one right now, not that it appears to be an option for us, just musing.

Otherwise it'd be wise to hold off until you can get either a Y or a 3 down the line with 4680 cells but that could be what, 12-18months away?

I picked up on something about Tesla looking to improve build quality so I'd not want a Tesla now for a while anyway, so delaying another 12-18 months might be good if someone wants a Tesla.
I keep looking to replace a second car but nothing suitable atm. I'm probably going to wait until Toyota or BMW do full EV & see how Tesla compare then. I'd consider an i3 if the range was more like 250 miles. It's about the right size of car for me but may need to do some longer commutes weekly.

sovietspybob · 26 Oct 2020 at 19:16

kosymodo said:
12-18mths wouldn't be an issue for me personally! There'll always be something else around the corner though, no matter when one buys

Yeah tbh even 18 months for me would be optimistic for any kind of Tesla with the wife losing her job and me being an IT contractor

I can still torture myself by keeping meticulous tabs on items i can never hope to afford in the near term though

bimbleuk · 27 Oct 2020 at 12:21

sovietspybob said:
I think I'd prefer a Chinese SR+ with the LFP batteries myself over an American built car if i was in the market for one right now, not that it appears to be an option for us, just musing.

Otherwise it'd be wise to hold off until you can get either a Y or a 3 down the line with 4680 cells but that could be what, 12-18months away?

In theory the last factory will have the latest iteration of the machine that makes the machine assuming the human element is constant

Recently I thought the obvious route was the model Y with the latest production methods, battery chemistry and Octovalve etc.

Then battery day happened and they hinted at the compact car. Then they started applying the Model Y updates to the Model 3 so they're not making the decision easy. If Elon actually announced a "Wolverine" version of the Cybertruck I'd be all over that though.

VincentHanna · 27 Oct 2020 at 15:26

There's still no "perfect" EV around, but I do want to jump on the bandwagon

As such I think I'm just going to go mad and run two cars - Think I'm set on getting a Polestar 2 through a business contract hire (0% BIK) and then PCH on a poverty spec Octavia Estate for long-range stuff, camping holidays, trips out with the dogs etc.

Those two cars still comes in at less per month than the EQC or Model S I was looking at!