Apple M1 CPU

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 11:54

Destination said:
Ah so what we actually need is a comparison of geekbench running in emulation mode, to see what the processor manages when tested in that fashion, rather than a recompile, which makes it a different test altogether.

Why? What would that prove? You don't think most software will just be rebuilt.for ARM?

Destination · 12 Nov 2020 at 12:06

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
Why? What would that prove? You don't think most software will just be rebuilt.for ARM?

No, I think the vast majority of applications, and business uses will certainly not be rebuilt for arm, in the ways it took a vast amount of time for games to come across to the apple domain.
Then they introduces apps, and app management.
I think companies will make cut down app versions of their products, with microtrans, rather than recompile all their code for arm.
Time will tell.

smilingcrow · 12 Nov 2020 at 12:10

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
those expensive, expensive Mac Pros aren't going to be using ARM any time soon.

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
No, I 'disputed' that they're going to drop x86 support within a couple of years.

You seem to have forgotten what you said so look above.
Apple have stated that they are fully transitioning within about 2 years which is fairly soon.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 12:17

smilingcrow said:
You seem to have forgotten what you said so look above.

No, I haven't forgotten what I said. I was referring to the existing model Mac Pros they have *already sold* for lots and lots of money after a relatively recent relaunch, which aren't going anywhere. People have paid a lot of money for them, and as a result Apple aren't going to be dropping x86 support any time soon.

smilingcrow said:
Apple have stated that they are fully transitioning within about 2 years which is fairly soon.

Great! But they still aren't going to -

smilingcrow said:
just drop x86 support completely over a relatively short period.

As they have a large base of Intel machines they've sold and are still selling. Which is the entirety of what I was disputing. Honestly it wasn't even meant as that much of a dispute, I just think we're looking at 7+ years of dual support, at least, because of the existing intel install-base.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 12:21

Destination said:
No, I think the vast majority of applications, and business uses will certainly not be rebuilt for arm, in the ways it took a vast amount of time for games to come across to the apple domain.
Then they introduces apps, and app management.
I think companies will make cut down app versions of their products, with microtrans, rather than recompile all their code for arm.
Time will tell.

I think that most of the big, commonly used stuff has probably already been rebuilt for the new system, dev boxes have been available for about six months now. It makes no sense to make cut-down versions for ARM Mac and more than it makes sense to make cut down versions for intel Mac. By the time you're building for Mac at all, you're already putting in the effort to target a different platform. The difference building software between Mac and Windows is already much larger than the difference a different architecture is likely to make, IMHO, as someone who used to build software that had to work on six different types of unix (some of which came on multiple different processor types).

smilingcrow · 12 Nov 2020 at 13:39

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
No, I haven't forgotten what I said.

I see what happened here. We were talking about software support and I mentioned how long MS have supported 32 bit Windows and said that Apple will "drop x86 support completely over a relatively short period", this compared to MS and 32 bit.
That is definitely correct within this context. I think you just missed the important word here which is relatively and the context of that part of the conversation.

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
those expensive, expensive Mac Pros aren't going to be using ARM any time soon.

This is not related to software support though and contradicts what Apple have said so I will say that Apple are correct in this case.

MegaPinches · 12 Nov 2020 at 13:56

HACO · 12 Nov 2020 at 14:05

Cinebench R23 results of the A12Z (DTK).

Being posted all over Reddit and other forums.

My modestly overclocked 5800X gets a score of about 1600 in the 10-minute single core test.

ChrisD. · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:06

https://twitter.com/andysomerfield/status/1326866126635143169

It's the highest CPU score we have ever seen (on any platform anywhere). The GPU is replacing parts which score ~1200 in the raster test.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:30

HACO said:
Cinebench R23 results of the A12Z (DTK).

The new Macs have an M1/A14X that boosts up to 3GHz, so I would expect them to score significantly better than the A12Z (iPad chip).

I don't think we should take apple's claims at face value, but the real benchmarks will be interesting.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:32

smilingcrow said:
This is not related to software support though and contradicts what Apple have said so I will say that Apple are correct in this case.

It doesn't contradict anything, people have bought very expensive Mac pros, so Apple must continue to support them for some time yet. Really not sure what your issue is with that... Sure, their *new* hardware transition can be over in a couple of years, that doesn't mean they get to drop x86 support anytime soon.

HACO · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:39

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
The new Macs have an M1/A14X that boosts up to 3GHz, so I would expect them to score significantly better than the A12Z (iPad chip).

I don't think we should take apple's claims at face value, but the real benchmarks will be interesting.

Apple's claims were so vague, you couldn't even take them at face value even if you wanted to

Benchmarks are dropping one by one.

smilingcrow · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:50

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
It doesn't contradict anything, people have bought very expensive Mac pros, so Apple must continue to support them for some time yet. Really not sure what your issue is with that... Sure, their *new* hardware transition can be over in a couple of years, that doesn't mean they get to drop x86 support anytime soon.

We agree on the Apple support for x86, it's just that your view on Apple's inability to replace the Mac Pro soon are the opposite of what Apple are saying.
You aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Apple.
Don't try to shoot the messenger.

HACO · 12 Nov 2020 at 15:54

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
It doesn't contradict anything, people have bought very expensive Mac pros, so Apple must continue to support them for some time yet. Really not sure what your issue is with that... Sure, their *new* hardware transition can be over in a couple of years, that doesn't mean they get to drop x86 support anytime soon.

Apple has been vague about this, saying they'll support x86 macs for "years to come", and there are varying degrees of support (full new OS, updates on professional software, just security updates, etc). So people can and have speculated about it.

Assuming mac sales remain roughly the same, there are 100m macs in active usage and Apple sells 20m a year, so replacing 1/5th. And even in 2021 vast majority of mac sales will likely be Intel. So Intel macs will remain majority of macs for at least another 5 years. Apple isn't going to drop support on 50% of macs like that. They'll be fine.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 16:22

smilingcrow said:
We agree on the Apple support for x86, it's just that your view on Apple's inability to replace the Mac Pro soon are the opposite of what Apple are saying.
You aren't disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with Apple.
Don't try to shoot the messenger.

Really not, they can change the lineup any time they like, but they can't change the units people have already bought. Unless you're claiming they're going to replace everyone's intel Mac Pro with an ARM one for free ... ?

smilingcrow · 12 Nov 2020 at 16:58

Jimmy Weirdarms said:
they can change the lineup any time they like.

So you have finally changed your mind and grasped that Apple can replace the Mac Pro with an ARM based one in the timetable they announced.
It takes a man to admit they were wrong, well done.

P. S. Don't bother replying as you are now on ignore.

Jimmy Weirdarms · 12 Nov 2020 at 17:41

smilingcrow said:
So you have finally changed your mind ...

Not in the slightest, please try a little reading comprehension next time.

JGBR · 13 Nov 2020 at 10:12

looks like 3.1 / 3.2 Ghz sustained on Mac mini.

Seems intel is under attack from all sides.

Competition is good for the consumer

I'd guess that Apple won't abandon supporting intel anytime before 2025.

4K8KW10 · 13 Nov 2020 at 11:20

JGBR said:
looks like 3.1 / 3.2 Ghz sustained on Mac mini.

Seems intel is under attack from all sides.

Competition is good for the consumer

I'd guess that Apple won't abandon supporting intel anytime before 2025.

The problem with Intel is that it's too slow in the development - if it doesn't offer RISC ARM CPUs, write them off.
What's the problem for them to move to the more progressive and futuristic ARM RISC technology?

Armageus · 13 Nov 2020 at 11:23

4K8KW10 said:
The problem with Intel is that it's too slow in the development - if it doesn't offer RISC ARM CPUs, write them off.
What's the problem for them to move to the more progressive and futuristic ARM RISC technology?

I'll bite... what's more progressive and futuristic about ARM RISC technology?