Leaking shower - clean and refit or replace

[fez]

Our shower has been leaking for about 6 months which has manifested as a slight stain in the ceiling of the room below. Its stayed at the same size for ages but is slowly increasing again and I decided something needed to be done.

Its a beastly waterfall shower and the drain doesn't seem to be able to get rid of the water quickly enough so it would sometimes get up to 1 inch of water in the bottom of the shower. I think this sitting water was where the leak was being exposed.

Once the shower was over it would all be gone in 20s or so but obviously during a 10 minute shower it would be sitting there 1 inch deep for 10 minutes.

Heres where it got fun. Whatever utter ***** had installed the shower had mounted it by drilling holes into the tiles to attach the screen (usual as far as I can tell). What they had then done is covered every single part of the screen that contacted with the pan or the wall with silicone. By covered, I mean absolutely covered. It took me about 4 hours to get it removed using hobby knives to cut the silicon away from between the screen and the wall/floor. I assume they had put the silicon on and then screwed it onto the wall, thus creating a super tight fit that was an absolute dick to remove.

So a few questions:

1. The screen is a few years old now, has got a bit grubby in the hard to reach areas and I have no idea how I am going to get rid of all the silicone on it without making a mess of it cosmetically. Should I just replace the whole thing.

2. Do I need to address the issue of the drain not being able to keep up with the output of the shower before I even contemplate putting a screen back on and resealing it all?

 

[NoobCannon]

1. What do you think you should do

2. what do you think you should do

 

[fez]

1. What do you think you should do

2. what do you think you should do

1. I think that for the sake of my sanity I should just replace it.

2. I have no idea. I don't know if thats an issue with a properly fitted and sealed shower. Whether its something that will be fine for a while and then not fine after a while.

I was hoping someone had experience with these things and could comment...

 

[NoobCannon]

The sower trap is prob jammed up with hair etc so slow draining . And the shower screen it depends if you Can be bothered to clean it properly or fit a new one.

 

[200sols]

1" of water will be in the tray and nothing to do with the enclosure? The most common areas for leaks are at the base of the wall channels usually resulting from poor installation. Removing the enclosure and sealing it properly is a good idea but removing old silicon isn't easy. First thing to do is 100% identify what is leaking and go from there.
Never seal the inside of the shower enclosure with silicone either.

 

[fez]

The sower trap is prob jammed up with hair etc so slow draining . And the shower screen it depends if you Can be bothered to clean it properly or fit a new one.

Cleaning the silicone off the tiles is a ball ache enough and I can be a bit more agressive with that. Trying to do that on a plastic screen might be too much for me to take.

1" of water will be in the tray and nothing to do with the enclosure?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean

The most common areas for leaks are at the base of the wall channels usually resulting from poor installation. Removing the enclosure and sealing it properly is a good idea but removing old silicon isn't easy. First thing to do is 100% identify what is leaking and go from there.
Never seal the inside of the shower enclosure with silicone either.

From what I can see, one corner of the pan is discoloured around the area it joins the wall. The silicone looks like it had failed there.

I fitted a much simpler screen at our last flat and the one thing they all stressed was not to seal the screen on the inside so that water can drain back into the pan instead of sitting inbetween the inside and outside of the screen silicone. The previous owners redid the whole bathroom so I assume this was done by a "professional".

 

[peige]

Agree with the above, water accumulating is not the reason it leaks unless it goes over the top. It will most likely be accumulating due to a partially blocked drain, due to hair i'd be willing to bet.

The leak will be a badly sealed shower, ether down the walls or round the base or worse case the actually drain pipes themselves. Mine needs resealing, i'd like to talk to the person who did it first time round, silicon around the plug hole inside the shower tray! Same on the toilets in this house, silicon around the rear waste pipe..

 

[fez]

Agree with the above, water accumulating is not the reason it leaks unless it goes over the top. It will most likely be accumulating due to a partially blocked drain, due to hair i'd be willing to bet.

The leak will be a badly sealed shower, ether down the walls or round the base or worse case the actually drain pipes themselves. Mine needs resealing, i'd like to talk to the person who did it first time round, silicon around the plug hole inside the shower tray! Same on the toilets in this house, silicon around the rear waste pipe..

When we were renovating the flat it blew my mind what people used caulk and sealant to cover up and get away with.

 

[peige]

When we were renovating the flat it blew my mind what people used caulk and sealant to cover up and get away with.

I can sympathise. Guy who did "diy" on the place I own now was a complete tool, the waste fitting on the back of the toilet was classic. He'd done a poor job of inserting the pipe in the first place and damaged the rubber that should have done the job so hey, why not just silicon that right up. Made sorting out the leak that was inevitable a massive pain.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

If the shower is leaking on to the ceiling below it’s unlikely to be the screen that is the issue. You would first see water outside of the shower/on the floor etc if it was.

It’s almost certainly a leaky waste, the seal around the bottom between the tray and the tiles or down the wall if there is one.

Shower trays (and baths) do have a bit of flex on them, especially if they are deep like yours sounds. Eventually the silicone will give up from flexing over the years and it need refreshing.

 

[Semple]

The drain definitely needs looking at. If it fills up with water that quickly and takes a while to drain then there's likely a blockage of some sort there.

That may or may not be causing your leak though, but regardless it does need sorting.

 

[happy_2008]

I used once of those sink zip plastic tools and i was shocked at how much hair and gunk it managed to pull out.

 

[200sols]

If the shower is leaking on to the ceiling below it’s unlikely to be the screen that is the issue. You would first see water outside of the shower/on the floor etc if it was.

Not so. The most common place for leaks is the channels where the enclosure meets the tray. Water can lip straight out the back here and find its way behind tiles/panels and straight through the floor.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean

Sorry, I meant 1" of water will be sitting in the tray.

 

[fez]

If the shower is leaking on to the ceiling below it’s unlikely to be the screen that is the issue. You would first see water outside of the shower/on the floor etc if it was.

It’s almost certainly a leaky waste, the seal around the bottom between the tray and the tiles or down the wall if there is one.

Shower trays (and baths) do have a bit of flex on them, especially if they are deep like yours sounds. Eventually the silicone will give up from flexing over the years and it need refreshing.

There was some water around the outside on the edge that I think failed. The shower tray isn't particularly deep either, that 1 inch of water was coming up on the enclosure frame a bit rather than being 1 inch of water entirely in the actual tray. The tray at its deepest is maybe 1.5-2cm deep.

The drain definitely needs looking at. If it fills up with water that quickly and takes a while to drain then there's likely a blockage of some sort there.

That may or may not be causing your leak though, but regardless it does need sorting.

Yeah, I have been doing a bit of reading and hopefully it is just a blockage somewhere as the other options seem to require far more drastic action to fix. Based on the ******** involved in fitting the screen however, I'm not sure I have any faith that the person who fitted it hasn't bodged the drain somewhere along the path to the external waste.

I used once of those sink zip plastic tools and i was shocked at how much hair and gunk it managed to pull out.

In theory there shouldn't be much hair as my partner has some sort of aversion to being clean and only takes baths 99% of the time but it could be remnants from the previous owners. I tried one of those cheapo plastic drain snakes but it only goes about 50cm and didn't pull anything out.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

There was some water around the outside on the edge that I think failed. The shower tray isn't particularly deep either, that 1 inch of water was coming up on the enclosure frame a bit rather than being 1 inch of water entirely in the actual tray. The tray at its deepest is maybe 1.5-2cm deep.

There’s your problem! The water in the tray must absolutely not go over the top of the tray, if it does it will leak. Shower enclosures are not designed to be water tight like a swimming pool, only to direct streams of water into the tray. Once the level goes above the tray it will leak.

A potential cause of it backing up could be that the waste pipe doesn’t have much of a drop on it until it gets to the soil stack. Any debris, gunk etc will cause it to back up and not handle the water from a high flow head, if it could ever handle it. If the pipe doesn’t have that much drop, the bottom of the trap might not be that much higher than the end of the pipe and will significantly reduce the amount of water the pipe can handle. It may be something the bathroom fitter didn’t consider if they swapped a high tray on risers to your current low profile one.

You mentioned that you had a rainfall head, have you considers putting in the water restrictions to reduce flow? I took all of them out of ours, great shower but it flows a significant amount of water, way more than a normal shower would. It’s great until you get the water bill!

 

[fez]

There’s your problem! The water in the tray must absolutely not go over the top of the tray, if it does it will leak. Shower enclosures are not designed to be water tight like a swimming pool, only to direct streams of water into the tray. Once the level goes above the tray it will leak.

A potential cause of it backing up could be that the waste pipe doesn’t have much of a drop on it until it gets to the soil stack. Any debris, gunk etc will cause it to back up and not handle the water from a high flow head, if it could ever handle it. If the pipe doesn’t have that much drop, the bottom of the trap might not be that much higher than the end of the pipe and will significantly reduce the amount of water the pipe can handle. It may be something the bathroom fitter didn’t consider if they swapped a high tray on risers to your current low profile one.

You mentioned that you had a rainfall head, have you considers putting in the water restrictions to reduce flow? I took all of them out of ours, great shower but it flows a significant amount of water, way more than a normal shower would. It’s great until you get the water bill!

Not going to lie, I love the waterfall shower so I don't know that I want to get rid of that. Our water bill isn't super high there are only two of us using it but I will try and get some hardcore drain cleaner down there to rule out any blockages restricting the flow.

Maybe that is why the guy who fitted it tried to convert it to a swimming pool with a couple of litres of silicone. He knew that it would have issues with drainage and tried to compensate.