Drilling out wheel bolts

[SaBBz]

Hi all

Just looking for advice.

Had some new tyres put on my F11 around 18 months ago, and am now in need of some new tyres. I booked it into a garage a few weeks ago and they were unable to take the wheels off, and actually broke the alloy wheel key trying to get them off. I’ve just had a mobile tyre fitter out who has rounded a bolt and broken one of his sockets trying to get the wheels off.

I guess I’m now looking at having the bolts drilled out? Any idea how much this is likely to cost?

Thanks

 

[SeatIbiza]

What the actual f. What clown put those on and hugely overtorqued them??

Can you get any of them out? Wheels bolts are hardened steel...they're not easy to drill! I've only had this happen once to me on a Fiat (presumably was made of cheese) and when I got the wheel off I could actually undo the snapped part of the bolt by hand...

 

[Semple]

What the actual f. What clown put those on and hugely overtorqued them??

Always find tyre fitters use the gun to put the bolt back on rather than using a torque wrench, it's just laziness.

Did the mobile tyre fitter have a torque gun? You don't really want to be undoing bolts with a wrench as you just have sheer force applied, the torque gun rotates both ways almost as if to vibrate the bolt loose.

Depending on the style of the alloy, you could apply some heat to the bolt and then torque gun it off.

 

[SeatIbiza]

He went to a garage...they'll have used a gun on it. But if it was overtorqued 18 months ago plus 20k miles or so, then it sounds like they're stuck. Or the garage is no good....

 

[visibleman]

Went through the same rigmarole a few months back and luckily found a garage to (organise a mobile welder to) weld a bolt to the damaged locking nut and wizz it off for £50 (additional nuts would have been £10 each).
Dealer wanted a few hundred to remove a single locking nut and the handful of mobile locking nut/bolt removal firms i contacted ranged between £90 to £150.

With the remainder undamaged locking nuts, i managed to track down the locking nut manufacturer (McGard in my case; Mazda rebrand them for OEM use) and they supplied a replacement key for £9 (technically free under warranty but they wanted the broken key send back, hence P&P cost) instead of £60 Mazda wanted to charge me.

From the folks i talked to, drilling them out is last resort as it's time consuming. So if they can't use the typical 'hammer on' removal tool or the 'spline puller' type tool then they will weld a bolt/nut and take it off that way.

 

[SaBBz]

The locking wheel nut actually came off fine this time, along with another 2 standard bolts, but one of the others has been rounded. He did it by hand and didn’t have a torque gun. So it’s just a normal wheel bolt that I need to have removed.

The garage that tried to replace the tyres a few weeks ago also attempted it by hand as they won’t use a wheel gun - presumably because things like this might happen!

I should probably have mentioned that I’ve already got a new locking wheel nut from BMW.

 

[SeatIbiza]

Welding a bolt onto the damaged one is your best bet then...

 

[mattyg]

You can normally hammer on a smaller socket (decent make) and just undo.

Or you have to really go to town tightening the other 3 to hopefully loosen the stuck one

 

[Nasher]

What the actual f. What clown put those on and hugely overtorqued them??

Almost every tyre fitter :/

It's especially bad if you have aluminium bolts because they can easily crack if you overtighten them too far. Always re-do it when you get home unless you see the guy do it properly with a torque wrench.

They think it's ok to use a gun because "they do it in racing", but those guns are pre-set to a specific torque.

 

[visibleman]

...but one of the others has been rounded. He did it by hand and didn’t have a torque gun.

Welding a bolt on top (if the bolt recess isn't too long) or drilling it out are probably your best bets as it sounds like your mobile guy already tried smacking a socket and/or a nut extractor on it.
Phone around your local garages and see if they're able to do either.

With it being a standard bolt, it does make you wonder if it's crossed threaded rather than tight/seized though.

 

[ezekial]

Welding is definitely the way

 

[Semple]

The locking wheel nut actually came off fine this time, along with another 2 standard bolts, but one of the others has been rounded. He did it by hand and didn’t have a torque gun. So it’s just a normal wheel bolt that I need to have removed.

The garage that tried to replace the tyres a few weeks ago also attempted it by hand as they won’t use a wheel gun - presumably because things like this might happen!

I should probably have mentioned that I’ve already got a new locking wheel nut from BMW.

There's the problem then.

You use the torque gun to remove them then you tighten them up by hand - never tighten up with the torque gun.

If they've rounded the bolt because of undoing it with a wrench then they should be the ones paying to have the bolt removed - even if it does mean welding something to the stuck bolt.

 

[Dangerous Dave]

Find a local garage/person who specialises in taking stuck wheel nuts/bolts out. I had the same issue with a locking wheel nut and he had it off in a couple of minutes for £10 with no damage to the wheel or locking bolt. He used a liberal amount of penetrating fluid, one use socket that shaped around the locking head of the bolt and a manual impact driver. One of the other bolts he thought locked bad and may have rounded so used it on that just incase and it came straight out.

The main thing he said was do not attempt to remove it by welding nut etc as 99% of the time it will come out with the method he used. It's only after attempts by other garages that he has had to resort to other measures.

I used https://www.wheelnutremoval.co.uk/ the pictures of some of the damage done before getting to him is crazy.

 

[mattyg]

Just bang on a smaller Hex socket. Its not that hard. Done it loads of time.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Is it not normal to uses copper slip when tightening bolts? My garage seems to use air gun to wind in then finishes with a torque wrench to set.

Welding a nut does seem the likely method. Drilling out is painful skilled work.

 

[phil675]

When this happened to me when the locking wheel nut socket broke, I found a 12-point imperial size socket that just fit over the top of the nuts, hammered it on tight and used that to get the nuts off. After I found the correct size I had to buy 3 more because there was no way it was coming off!

 

[Finglonga]

Is it not normal to uses copper slip when tightening bolts?

Definitely not as they need much more force to get the correct torque when lubricated to the bolds will be stretched. Also they rely on the dry friction to not come undone when the heat makes the bolt expand and contract. Never ever grease wheel nuts/bolts.

 

[NoNameNoNumber]

Definitely not as they need much more force to get the correct torque when lubricated to the bolds will be stretched. Also they rely on the dry friction to not come undone when the heat makes the bolt expand and contract. Never ever grease wheel nuts/bolts.

Wrong
Cu slip will necessitate a lower torque value to get required stretch.

Also. It's the tension created in the bolt that keeps them from coming loose. Not friction.

 

[NickK]

Last resort - put a hole in (not all the way through), reverse thread it (ie the opposite way) then use another bolt to tight up into the old bolt and then use an impact driver in reverse? The new bolt tightens into the old, the old then is hammered into undoing.

I've normally got away with simply using an impact driver on it.

 

[andy_mk3]

Wrong
Cu slip will necessitate a lower torque value to get required stretch.

Also. It's the tension created in the bolt that keeps them from coming loose. Not friction.

Pretty much every car I have ever worked on explicitly says not to grease the bolts.