Employment Question

[dazzerd]

Evening I'm wondering if anybody can offer any advice if you have been in a similar situation or recommend a firm of reasonably priced solicitors.

I'm based in a village right on the outskirts of Winchester

I've been with a company about 5 and a half years and I generally would travel into the office about 3 times a week a one way commute of about 20 miles. There is a reasonable relocation/travel policy on my contract.

Company were bought by another firm in September and certain members of staff were TUPED. There was an understanding that we would still be based in the same location but would rent a portion of the building from the old employer for a certain number of years.

New firm have turned around acquired an office in Reading. They have made a decision that anybody who is within 90 minutes of the new office must travel to Reading 3 days a week anybody outside that range is classed as a home worker. For the first two years they will pay an amount to cover travel costs which is not part of my Salary, after two years this will go.

I have been classed as within the 90 mile range so will be expected to travel.

I am currently disputing this at the moment and waiting for a response.

If I don't accept their response and don't sign the new contract I am being told I will be made redundant.

Apart from challenging the 90 minute range, I'm also concerned that in essence they are forcing me to sign a contract under duress and that the terms are unreasonable. In other words if I sign and travel into Reading I am explicitly accepting the new terms and conditions but after the two years it would be completely unreasonable to continue to travel to the office due to commute costs bearing down on me. These are substantial, circa 4.5k per year which is not realistic for me to pay.

If on the other hand it was clear that redundancy would be offered after the 2 year period was up it would be more reasonable but this is not the case.

I've already spoke to a solicitor who agrees it "seems" unreasonable but wants a big wedge of cash before going on any further and clearly going down the legal route is going to get uncomfortable.

Any body with similar experiences who could offer a way around this?

 

[Moley]

Speak to ACAS, they can advise you for free before you need to shell out for a solicitor.

 

[Diddums]

Speak to ACAS, they can advise you for free before you need to shell out for a solicitor.

This. Don't even engage, get hold of ACAS first.

 

[Kill_Phil]

There is a reasonable relocation/travel policy on my contract > as above acas are a good starting point. what's the wording around this in your contract?

 

[dazzerd]

Ahh thanks for the ACAS tip completely forgot about them:

The clause in my contract simply states:

"You will be based at the location specified on the previous page. The Company reserves the right on reasonable notice to change this either on a temporary or permanent basis to work at any premises of the Company or any other Group Company within the UK. In the event of the Company changing your base location and the relevant criteria being met, then relocation assistance may be offered in line with the Company’s Relocation Policy. The Company may also require you to travel as is reasonably necessary to carry out your job."

 

[clv101]

Are you a member of a union?

 

[2004typer]

What a dire situation - bad timing too - is there scope to find another job in a reasonable time frame?

Would you be due much redundancy pay?

I fear they've got you by the short and curlys, no doubt they've got their HR department combing over the legalities (and anyone who says HR are there for the employee are deluded, they are there to protect the employer from the employee).

 

[Kill_Phil]

Quite a vague clause that. In reality you've got fairly limited options. In a stalemate you're looking at redundancy so may want to look at the package on offer but do you really want to push for this in the current climate?

Before going in all guns blazing just ask if they can negotiate and maybe go into the office 2 days rather than the 3? Not ideal but you buy yourself 2 years (apart from the travelling time) in which the market may pick up and you can actively look for alt employment

 

[dazzerd]

I'm on 3 months notice redundancy terms will be OK but I'd rather not do it. The relocation per se doesn't bother me it's the income reduction at the end of the 2 years which bothers me. They are almost saying you have 2 years to find a new job then tough.

 

[Kill_Phil]

I'm on 3 months redundancy terms will be OK but I'd rather not do it. The relocation per se doesn't bother me it's the income reduction at the end of the 2 years which bothers me. They are almost saying you have 2 years to find a new job then tough.

The cover of travel expenses is fairly standard in relocation situations and 2 years is actually fairly generous compared to others.

Im guessing you're ruling out relocating as it seems in the clause they have relocation packages if you meet the criteria?

If not then yes if you stay you'd either be looking at another job or moving closer to reading but at least you have 2 years to plan for this.

Horrible situation to be in but imo you'd be wasting money throwing it at a solicitor.

 

[dazzerd]

The cover of travel expenses is fairly standard in relocation situations and 2 years is actually fairly generous compared to others.

Im guessing you're ruling out relocating as it seems in the clause they have relocation packages if you meet the criteria?

If not then yes if you stay you'd either be looking at another job or moving closer to reading but at least you have 2 years to plan for this.

Horrible situation to be in but imo you'd be wasting money throwing it at a solicitor.

Yep this is my concern, I go and spend 500 squid on a solicitor to write a nice letter. Company no doubt will challenge in and then my only option is to take it further which I couldn't afford anyway.

Touch wood they will agree to change me to a homeworker anyway. I'm also being told by my boss and his boss that they "won't be actively monitoring attendance" but that doesn't mean corporate won't be.

 

[Quartz]

In addition to ACAS, don't forget the Citizens' Advice Bureau.

Presumably your current commute is negigible? If so they're asking an extra two hours of your day for the commute for no recompense. Are they based near Reading train station? If so perhaps you could point out that there is a train service you can use and you could work on the train?

 

[booyaka]

Ultimately - What do you want....

If they said they would cover your travel expenses for next 5 years to Reading - Would you say yes?
Do you really want to keep/remain in the job?

Think about what you want out of this situation. As other said - Don't spend money on a solicitor yet - ACAS/CAB etc. But have a plan for what you want to get out of this in the best case scenario.

 

[Maundie]

Travel expenses are usually only paid for 2 years (maybe 3 but not 100% sure), think it's something to do with HMRC rule as well, if you don't sign the new contract you are effectively making yourself redundant (I did this when we were being transferred over to a different employer) as they have explained, have you done a distance measure from your house to the new office in Reading, is it over 90 miles, if it isn't not sure how you can dispute that you fall outside the 90 mile threshold.

As a couple of people have said need to make up your mind and decide if you want to stay, sign the new contract and suck it up or refuse the new contract and be made redundant, in my instance I was happy to take the redundancy due to the good payout I was due to receive.

I also wouldn't take management telling you the office visits won't be measured as gospel either because once you sign that new contract they'll more than likely deny ever saying that depending what comes down from above.

 

[dazzerd]

The threshold is 90 minutes not miles, so I'm disputing that not the distance. What they don't appear to have taken into account is traffic either direct to reading or getting to the train station and then commute time on the train.
Regarding what I want I like my job it pays well and is flexible.

But the increase in travel expense is almost 4 times what it currently is and more than double commute time. Average currently is about 40 mins in and 40 minutes out. I reckon to travel from where I live which is near Wickham to Reading is going to be more like 2 hours each way.

Advantage in all this and something which buys me time is covid. I doubt we will be back until April at the earliest but I need to sign the contract in December.

 

[Semple]

Is timing even a fair factor? To be fair, a 90 minute commute isn't too bad. But it depends what kind of roads you're driving on, and how often there are problems on the route. For example if that commute actually takes between 90 and 120 mins, then it starts to become a bit of a chore.

I am surprised they haven't just decided to measure it by mileage.

 

[dazzerd]

It's either a drive through Twyford, M3 A34 then onto Reading Park and ride which is a crap drive.

Or drive into Eastleigh to train station then train which is the preferred option. The drive here is 30 mins plus an hour train but that doesn't take into account changes and car parking etc etc which is one pushes it to 2 hours.

I think the solution is to suck it up and look for another job whilst still in covid - kids and massive mortgage leave me little choice. If I didn't have that would take the money and take the risk I would find something over noticebperiod.

 

[Maundie]

The threshold is 90 minutes not miles

Well you did put both into the OP I just picked the one you didn't mean, it makes no sense to do a 90 minute limit as what happens if one day there's an accident and it means it'll take you 91 minutes do they then say "Oh it took you over the threshold today so you're now classed as a homeworker"?

 

[dazzerd]

Well you did put both into the OP I just picked the one you didn't mean, it makes no sense to do a 90 minute limit as what happens if one day there's an accident and it means it'll take you 91 minutes do they then say "Oh it took you over the threshold today so you're now classed as a homeworker"?

Well this is the problem they now have. About 30 people are challenging it based on the fact that time is pretty contingent on lots of things and at what point do they start and end measuring, is waiting for a train for instance included or excluded.

 

[Maundie]

Well this is the problem they now have. About 30 people are challenging it based on the fact that time is pretty contingent on lots of things and at what point do they start and end measuring, is waiting for a train for instance included or excluded.

Yeah I can see why as well, good luck but feel you'll just have to sign and hope to find somewhere else closer to home within the 2 year period