Dogs off a leash in parks

Soldato
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Caporegime
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We have had a dog for a few months now, a rescue collie, it feels like there isn't enough information out there for how owners should behave with their dog, when do you let the dog off, what is the etiquette when another dog walker has theirs on lead? Is it the right thing to let your dog run with other dogs off lead in the park etc, I always apologise when ours bounds up to other dogs but more often than not the owners say its fine.

What I don't understand is owners that don't pick up their dogs poop, it takes no time at all and its not like it touches your hand.
 
Soldato
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It seems like every time I'm walking through a park with my kids that someone's dog will bound towards them being overly friendly. I know the dogs aren't being aggressive but it scares my 4 and 2 year old when the dog jumps up and puts it's paws on them or tries and steals some food they might be eating.

Often were just on our own, minding our own business away from other people.

I now feel like dog owners shouldn't come near young children if their dog is off a lead, as I'm fed up of it happening and I don't want my kids to be scared of dogs.

The same applies to dogs.

Our little dog (mini Dachsund) isn't phased by other dogs, but when one comes running upto him on no lead he can get a bit scared.

We very very rarely take him off the lead. Whilst he's usually pretty good and won't try and run off, it only takes something to catch his attention, and that's all training gone out of the window.

As a responsible dog owner, I'd be happy with some sort of dog licence requirement etc. I regularly see so many bad owners, so that would hopefully cut down on those types who just want a dog to "fit in".
 
Soldato
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If we can start booting dogs then it's only fair to be allowed to boot kids when they are naughty on the bus, supermarket queues and restaurants.

If you're genuinely concerned that a naughty kid poses a real risk to your life then sure, go ahead. Or maybe consider getting some counselling :rolleyes:

Of course we both know you're just being facetious, and that there's a world of difference between an unruly child misbehaving on a bus and worst case scenario covering you in snot and sticky fingers, vs an unknown animal running up to a child with the ability to quite literally rip that child's throat out whilst the owner stands there ineffectually calling it's name and repeating "he's a good boy really" over and over again...

FWIW I agree that parents should also be held responsible for their kids, and should not be letting them run up to random people or dogs (for exactly the above reasons)

Edit: with reference to my above post and the responses to it. Obviously my first response to a dog running over is not going to be stomping on it, I will put myself between the dog and the child. If however the owner is unwilling/unable to call the dog off and it is acting at all threatening, i won't be giving it the chance to attack.
 
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Soldato
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If you're genuinely concerned that a naughty kid poses a real risk to your life then sure, go ahead. Or maybe consider getting some counselling :rolleyes:

Of course we both know you're just being facetious, and that there's a world of difference between an unruly child misbehaving on a bus and worst case scenario covering you in snot and sticky fingers, vs an unknown animal running up to a child with the ability to quite literally rip that child's throat out whilst the owner stands there ineffectually calling it's name and repeating "he's a good boy really" over and over again...

Game set and match I think. Quite an eye opening description!
 
Soldato
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It's difficult as there's no clear rules in many places and unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there. We let our 2 dogs off the lead in quieter or more rural areas but tend to keep them on the lead when in parks or more confined walking routes.

I also know that I could easily overpower them if necessary as they are only small and a breed not known for aggression. I think if I had a medium / large breed of dog, I'd be more wary of letting them of the lead in case I couldn't control them if the worst happened.
 
Caporegime
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It's difficult as there's no clear rules in many places and unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there. We let our 2 dogs off the lead in quieter or more rural areas but tend to keep them on the lead when in parks or more confined walking routes.

I also know that I could easily overpower them if necessary as they are only small and a breed not known for aggression. I think if I had a medium / large breed of dog, I'd be more wary of letting them of the lead in case I couldn't control them if the worst happened.

Small breeds in rural areas tend to be the ones that kill lambs. Vicious little things.
A gent got very upset with a farmer friend of mine last year when we told him if he didn't get his dogs back on their lead that he'd shoot them. I wanted to shoot the owner but was overruled :(
 
Soldato
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Game set and match I think. Quite an eye opening description!

It's not like badly brought up (trained) kids don't grow up to be killers or rapists... like that's never happened.

I can keep going down the absurd rabbit hole if you like.

Dogs have an instinct to protect their pack. Don't go near them, shout at them (or their owners) and keep your horrible little disease carrying children away from them or there is the potential of the above happening. It's a two way street and doesn't require the stomping of either creature.
 
Soldato
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Small breeds in rural areas tend to be the ones that kill lambs. Vicious little things.
A gent got very upset with a farmer friend of mine last year when we told him if he didn't get his dogs back on their lead that he'd shoot them. I wanted to shoot the owner but was overruled :(

Id definitely not let mine off anywhere near livestock. They show no interest in them anyway but I wouldn't want the animals to panic and do something stupid.
 
Soldato
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Dogs have an instinct to protect their pack. Don't go near them, shout at them (or their owners) and keep your horrible little disease carrying children away from them or there is the potential of the above happening. It's a two way street and doesn't require the stomping of either creature.

Fair comment. All about context, I understand your point.

However the heart of this topic/thread is about dogs off leashes in parks, and you dont hear many dog owners complaining about their dogs being approached/jumped on in parks by excited children running up to them.
Or complaining about children taking a dump in the grass patch and leaving it or not picking it up.
 
Caporegime
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It's not like badly brought up (trained) kids don't grow up to be killers or rapists... like that's never happened.

I can keep going down the absurd rabbit hole if you like.

Dogs have an instinct to protect their pack. Don't go near them, shout at them (or their owners) and keep your horrible little disease carrying children away from them or there is the potential of the above happening. It's a two way street and doesn't require the stomping of either creature.

I'd disagree. Some dog breeds are by instinct very aggressive and it takes someone who really knows what they are doing to train them properly. Rottweilers is an example.

However kids aren't naturally aggressive. Yeah they may get angry and lash out but that's at a specific stage the terrible two's it's usually called. However they grow out of it with half decent parenting and learn to control their anger and it's usually out of a lack of understanding and frustration than anything because they want their own way all the time.

The problem is dogs can be hidden away from outside social influence whereas kids will be integrated into nurseries, schools, etc where even if they have bad parents they have a much better chance of reform than with dogs that are stuck with a bad owner until it's put down.

Maybe all dogs should have to be tested for aggression for the first 5 years of its life. Proper regulation and if owners are found to be lacking in proper training and being able to command their dog they should be banned from owning one.

There is a real lack of policing when it comes to dog ownership. Which is why so many are discarded once the honeymoon period wears off and rescue centres have to put so many down.

Who pays for all this though? Proper regulation of the whole breeding industry and ownership is required. To own a dog you should require a license which costs say £300 a year. For that your dog gets tested every 6 months to ensure its being looked after properly and isn't a danger to society. Breeders should require much more expensive licenses and they also require to be inspected every 6 months at random to make sure they aren't doing anything dodgy.
 
Soldato
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Can’t stand them. Also think most of their existences are cruel unless you have loads of land. The fact you have to ‘walk’ a dog is just odd. It’s an animal, it shouldn’t need walking because it shouldn’t be so bloody restricted in the first place.

I don’t understand why people would spend money on furniture, carpets etc. To then let an animal that chews on things, scratches things, ****** and ***** everywhere, barks every time someone turns up at their house. Puts their dander and fur all over your house so it stinks (yeah, you might grow immune to the smell, but if you ever go round a dog owners house they always stink of dog). Yeah, not for me. In the same way I don’t agree with zoos unless it’s for helping endangered species, I think forcing an animal into a human mould is cruel. And find it baffling that most people don’t see it that way.

I know I’ll get bashed for this post because as others have said we’re a nation of dog lovers. I’m happy to go against the grain. I don’t like them as pets. I admire them as working dogs. Watching sheepdogs in action is fantastic. But most people having a dog in a residential situation. I don’t get it.
 
Soldato
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Can’t stand them. Also think most of their existences are cruel unless you have loads of land. The fact you have to ‘walk’ a dog is just odd. It’s an animal, it shouldn’t need walking because it shouldn’t be so bloody restricted in the first place.

I don’t understand why people would spend money on furniture, carpets etc. To then let an animal that chews on things, scratches things, ****** and ***** everywhere, barks every time someone turns up at their house. Puts their dander and fur all over your house so it stinks (yeah, you might grow immune to the smell, but if you ever go round a dog owners house they always stink of dog). Yeah, not for me. In the same way I don’t agree with zoos unless it’s for helping endangered species, I think forcing an animal into a human mould is cruel. And find it baffling that most people don’t see it that way.

I know I’ll get bashed for this post because as others have said we’re a nation of dog lovers. I’m happy to go against the grain. I don’t like them as pets. I admire them as working dogs. Watching sheepdogs in action is fantastic. But most people having a dog in a residential situation. I don’t get it.

Tbh, I felt the same about dogs until it became the only thing my partner would talk about as her goal in life. I agreed under protest, but now I would bawl like crazy if they were taken away. Which is why they are as well trained as possible so that it reduces the risk of anything happening to cause them to be taken away to a minimum.

/snip about dog behaviour/training/innate behaviour

I agree. I'll keep this brief.

Our first puppy we picked up at 4 months from the breeder and only one bollock had dropped (vet said this could and could not cause testosterone issues, very vague and non-committal as usual from them I've found), then found that he was terrified of everything including his own body. First training session almost led to bloodbath, the "little" guy just wanted to fight every dog it saw - so from then on it was 1-1 very expensive training for him but he was fine with people after they were introduced.

Then another stage in his development started and he now was being fearful of everyone apart from us or people he had extensively been introduced to, and his reaction was to bark to warn people away. Introducing people to this "aggressive" dog was impossible to do safely and he now stood no chance of being socialised properly, especially as anyone new would come bumbling up with the "I've got dogs, they love me" attitude which was greeted with a lovely "GET THE **** AWAY FROM ME" bark from our guy. Training continued but we could sense it was now becoming quite desperate, and the behaviourist we'd been working closely with all this time was also being realistic with us on the expectations for the rest of his life and the requirements that would take.

For my partner all the trust, built up little by little through small gains of non-stop training, was completely eroded by the time he started to air snap and lunge as a progression from his stand-off behaviour of the early days. We just couldn't risk this dog being any near general society, and it was incredibly upsetting thinking it was our fault. We believed it was our fault right up until we got further dogs and realised the breeder must have set this dog up to fail or he had a neurological issue that was out of our control.

After 7 months of NEVER having that new puppy feeling, because believe me that dog was a beast from the very start, he went very tearfully back to the breeders. They kept all the money that had been paid (fair enough), would not keep us up to date on how he progresses and wouldn't even guarantee he wouldn't be re-homed near children. I believe very strongly that that dog was bad right from the start, and if we didn't have the option of returning him to the breeder (it was in the agreement that they had first refusal) then we likely would have had him PTS ourselves as painful as that would have been.

If you had told be that dogs could be like that after owning the two we have now? No way in hell would I believe you. All the money spent however has made us much better owners, more respectful around others and only let them off in areas that the excitement levels can be kept to a minimum. I suppose in a way I'm agreeing with your points that people should be trained before owning a dog, but I think it goes beyond just the owners as the reaction and education of the general population also has an effect on the dogs behaviour. Especially when socialising them - please people, stop and ask owners from a distance first if you can pet their dog! We have mini anxiety attacks when we see people come flying up to our guys because of the experience we've had. You have zero knowledge of that dog's upbringing, it's temperament or it's triggers and not only do you put yourself at risk but the dogs life due to the law.

Above all else, if an owner cannot reliably recall the dog it should NEVER be let off lead near other people or animals.
 
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Associate
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Can’t stand them. Also think most of their existences are cruel unless you have loads of land. The fact you have to ‘walk’ a dog is just odd. It’s an animal, it shouldn’t need walking because it shouldn’t be so bloody restricted in the first place.

I don’t understand why people would spend money on furniture, carpets etc. To then let an animal that chews on things, scratches things, ****** and ***** everywhere, barks every time someone turns up at their house. Puts their dander and fur all over your house so it stinks (yeah, you might grow immune to the smell, but if you ever go round a dog owners house they always stink of dog). Yeah, not for me. In the same way I don’t agree with zoos unless it’s for helping endangered species, I think forcing an animal into a human mould is cruel. And find it baffling that most people don’t see it that way.

I know I’ll get bashed for this post because as others have said we’re a nation of dog lovers. I’m happy to go against the grain. I don’t like them as pets. I admire them as working dogs. Watching sheepdogs in action is fantastic. But most people having a dog in a residential situation. I don’t get it.
Swap the word 'dog' for 'child' and I'm with you!
 
Soldato
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Genuine question to dog owners who say something to the effect of "my dog wouldnt hurt anyone" or similar.

I'm a dog owner but any dog will bite given the right set of triggers, the same as a human would defend itself by force if it needed to.

My 8 years old girl knows that our dogs might bite her if she is cruel to them, it's a simple lesson in consequences which currently seems to be sadly lacking in some young people, if you hurt a dog it might bite! In fact that was one of our main reasons for getting dogs, I find children that have been bought up around dogs are generally better adjusted than those that haven't. There are many benefits, I believe that children with dogs are much less likely to develop asthma and there also appear to be other health benefits.

Dogs should be on a lead in a public park, if let off they must be able to be recalled so they can be put back on leads if let off for good run. Children without dogs should know not to scream and run if a unknown dogs comes towards them, it's more likely to mean the dog will chase them as it will think they are playing. Now this should never happen mind you as dogs should be on leads or the owner of the dog should be in control.

I still advocate that some posters need every post vetting by a mod before it goes live.

Some posters on here need "putting down" ;)

HEADRAT
 
Soldato
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Tbh, I felt the same about dogs until it became the only thing my partner would talk about as her goal in life. I agreed under protest, but now I would bawl like crazy if they were taken away. Which is why they are as well trained as possible so that it reduces the risk of anything happening to cause them to be taken away to a minimum.



I agree. I'll keep this brief.

Our first puppy we picked up at 4 months from the breeder and only one bollock had dropped (vet said this could and could not cause testosterone issues, very vague and non-committal as usual from them I've found), then found that he was terrified of everything including his own body. First training session almost led to bloodbath, the "little" guy just wanted to fight every dog it saw - so from then on it was 1-1 very expensive training for him but he was fine with people after they were introduced.

Then another stage in his development started and he now was being fearful of everyone apart from us or people he had extensively been introduced to, and his reaction was to bark to warn people away. Introducing people to this "aggressive" dog was impossible to do safely and he now stood no chance of being socialised properly, especially as anyone new would come bumbling up with the "I've got dogs, they love me" attitude which was greeted with a lovely "GET THE **** AWAY FROM ME" bark from our guy. Training continued but we could sense it was now becoming quite desperate, and the behaviourist we'd been working closely with all this time was also being realistic with us on the expectations for the rest of his life and the requirements that would take.

For my partner all the trust, built up little by little through small gains of non-stop training, was completely eroded by the time he started to air snap and lunge as a progression from his stand-off behaviour of the early days. We just couldn't risk this dog being any near general society, and it was incredibly upsetting thinking it was our fault. We believed it was our fault right up until we got further dogs and realised the breeder must have set this dog up to fail or he had a neurological issue that was out of our control.

After 7 months of NEVER having that new puppy feeling, because believe me that dog was a beast from the very start, he went very tearfully back to the breeders. They kept all the money that had been paid (fair enough), would not keep us up to date on how he progresses and wouldn't even guarantee he wouldn't be re-homed near children. I believe very strongly that that dog was bad right from the start, and if we didn't have the option of returning him to the breeder (it was in the agreement that they had first refusal) then we likely would have had him PTS ourselves as painful as that would have been.

If you had told be that dogs could be like that after owning the two we have now? No way in hell would I believe you. All the money spent however has made us much better owners, more respectful around others and only let them off in areas that the excitement levels can be kept to a minimum. I suppose in a way I'm agreeing with your points that people should be trained before owning a dog, but I think it goes beyond just the owners as the reaction and education of the general population also has an effect on the dogs behaviour. Especially when socialising them - please people, stop and ask owners from a distance first if you can pet their dog! We have mini anxiety attacks when we see people come flying up to our guys because of the experience we've had. You have zero knowledge of that dog's upbringing, it's temperament or it's triggers and not only do you put yourself at risk but the dogs life due to the law.

Above all else, if an owner cannot reliably recall the dog it should NEVER be let off lead near other people or animals.

What breed was it?

When we got a puppy and did some extensive research, one main point was socialising it early. So as soon as he'd had his jabs, we'd take him for walks amongst other dogs and children, sit in cafes etc. I believe he's much more mellowed out because of this.

You make the good point about not knowing a dogs upbringing, which makes it much harder for people to adopt a dog. A lot of dogs that have needed to be rehomed will likely have behavioral issues.
 
Soldato
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It's not like badly brought up (trained) kids don't grow up to be killers or rapists... like that's never happened.

We're not talking about when they've grown up though, you made the comparison to kicking a naughty child misbehaving on the bus to someone kicking a dog running up to their children in a threatening manner.

It's very simple.

Threat posed to you by a naughty child misbehaving on the bus (or anywhere else) - so small as to be insignificant (unless you're in the US where they seem to periodically get hold of loaded guns :()
Threat posed to a child by a dog jumping up and snapping at it's face - potentially life threatening.

There's no real comparison.

Whilst I know that in 99.99%+ cases it will be fine and the dog is most likely just overexcited and coming to say hello, I'm just not willing to take the risk with my kids that this time is that 1/10,000 case.

If you are unwilling/unable to control your dog, then as far as I'm concerned, you lose all right to take offence when someone else is forced to.

I can keep going down the absurd rabbit hole if you like.

The fact you've acknowledged your own argument is absurd, but still continue to labour the point just proves that you're more interested in being a **** than actually discussing a valid point in good faith, so I'll leave you to it.
 
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