Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [27th - 30th Nov 2020]

[BaZ87]

The man that bites people and is generally a massive **** on the pitch. I'm sure he was being friendly with his use of it to his mate Evra. Of course he didn't admit to being openly racist. He would have to be braindead to do that.

I doubt he will too but its still stupid.

His defence was ultimately the same as the defence that Cavani is going to use here. In South American Spanish dialect it's a lot more common to make references to peoples skin colour in non offensive ways. You can't attack Suarez for using that defence and then defend Cavani for it.

In other news, Jimenez had surgery for a fractured skull, not surprised with Luiz steaming in at him. Hope he recovers soon

Damn That's going to be a long recovery but thankfully he's stable and able to make that recovery.

 

[Maundie]

In other news, Jimenez had surgery for a fractured skull, not surprised with Luiz steaming in at him. Hope he recovers soon

Just read that, could be a career ender for him if he can't head the ball anymore, looked really nasty and hope he makes a full recovery as he's a really good striker

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

In other news, Jimenez had surgery for a fractured skull, not surprised with Luiz steaming in at him. Hope he recovers soon

Just read that. Cech was able to continue playing but Ryan Mason wasn't, no idea if that was due to the damage caused or the position they played on the pitch but it could be career ending.

 

[Maundie]

2 incidents were oppistion players verbally abusing black players because they are black. The other is someone using a term that isn't offensive in their country or language in a positive comment. Almost identical



Do you think that when black rappers use the N word they are secretly being nasty and offensive to each other because you don't seem to understand context. Even a little.

I understand context just fine but if they set the bar here it's just going to get people more wound up, I also hate it when black rappers use the terms as it screams double standards to me, if the FA let him off then it contradicts the BLM kneeling they had been forcing on everyone, and I'll give you the rolls eyes back

Just proves that I was correct in Man Utd fans will defend it to the hilt.

 

[Purdy]

Horrific for Jiminez, as above no idea if the extent of injury or position dictates the ability to play again but at least he's had a reasonable length of career if it is over.

I understand context just fine but if they set the bar here it's just going to get people more wound up, I also hate it when black rappers use the terms as it screams double standards to me, if the FA let him off then it contradicts the BLM kneeling they had been forcing on everyone, and I'll give you the rolls eyes back

Just proves that I was correct in Man Utd fans will defend it to the hilt.

Its hardly surprising they defend it, its not harmful language in his culture and unlike B.Silva for example it isn't inherently making a mockery due to the colour of someone's skin.

That said the 'Suarez didn't say 'negrito' ackshully' stuff + Liverpool fans trying to tie the two together is showing a lack of true understanding or attempt to understand the situation that previously occurred as Baz has clearly expalined.

The man that bites people and is generally a massive **** on the pitch. I'm sure he was being friendly with his use of it to his mate Evra. Of course he didn't admit to being openly racist. He would have to be braindead to do that.

Evra's reliability certainly wouldn't be questionable given his past behaviours, seems a stable character.

 

[Robbo]

In other news, Jimenez had surgery for a fractured skull, not surprised with Luiz steaming in at him. Hope he recovers soon

Such a shame for him, as others have said, I wonder if that could put his career at risk, not being able to head the ball properly or be combative is far from ideal...

 

[fez]

I understand context just fine but if they set the bar here it's just going to get people more wound up, I also hate it when black rappers use the terms as it screams double standards to me, if the FA let him off then it contradicts the BLM kneeling they had been forcing on everyone, and I'll give you the rolls eyes back

Its not going to get poeple more wound up at all because unsurprisingly whatever their decision is, lots of people will say they are wrong. You say you understand context and then say that using the N word is a double standard. Its not. A word is simply a word. Some black people hate the term and others see it as taking a word that was used to oppress them and degrate them and take its power back. There is no "right" answer on that. It can be both positive and negative depending on who is saying it to whom and under what circumstances. The very definition of context.

Just proves that I was correct in Man Utd fans will defend it to the hilt.

Or I just think you are wrong and talking rubbish...

Just so you know, I think banning Bernado was a stupid decision for his tweet to Mendy. Maybe thats because I am a Manchester fan??

 

[fez]

Evra's reliability certainly wouldn't be questionable given his past behaviours, seems a stable character.

Why would Evra claim that Suarez repeatedly used it with negative connotations if he didn't. Evra is a bit of a mad lad but thats a bit of a stretch. Its not like he might have misheard a single sentence. It was a dialogue between the two.

 

[bazzabear]

His defence was ultimately the same as the defence that Cavani is going to use here. In South American Spanish dialect it's a lot more common to make references to peoples skin colour in non offensive ways. You can't attack Suarez for using that defence and then defend Cavani for it.

So Suarez was using his skin colour in a non offensive way, as part of a sentence which was specifically trying to offend him?

I genuinely can't believe Liverpool fans are still beating this drum. I thought you all magically gained some kind of ethical compass about his actions once he left.

The guy I knew who used to rage against it went through the whole spectrum as further evidence was released:
Suarez never said it, Evra lied.
Suarez said it as a term of endearment.
Suarez said it while insulting him, but it wasn't part of the insult.
And then when he left - He was always a nasty piece of work, I never believed he didn't say it.

Interestingly, from step 2 onwards Evra was still somehow the villain of the piece for ... telling the truth about it.

 

[bazzabear]

Evra's reliability certainly wouldn't be questionable given his past behaviours, seems a stable character.

I'd totally agree with you, Evra's a bit of a nutter. But his reliability doesn't make any difference, since there's no question mark about whether Suarez said it anyway.

 

[bazzabear]

Anyway - I'm stepping away from this. The argument was settled years ago for anyone not in some weird denial.

 

[Purdy]

Why would Evra claim that Suarez repeatedly used it with negative connotations if he didn't. Evra is a bit of a mad lad but thats a bit of a stretch. Its not like he might have misheard a single sentence. It was a dialogue between the two.

There would be no value in me guessing why he would do something like that, he may well not have, we'll never know
Difficult to give a guilty verdict when past behaviours of both have been pretty awful behaviour in their career

I'd totally agree with you, Evra's a bit of a nutter. But his reliability doesn't make any difference, since there's no question mark about whether Suarez said it anyway.

There is a question mark on the specifics of what was said and the intent though which is rather important.

 

[BaZ87]

Why would Evra claim that Suarez repeatedly used it with negative connotations if he didn't. Evra is a bit of a mad lad but thats a bit of a stretch. Its not like he might have misheard a single sentence. It was a dialogue between the two.

I'm sure that you're aware that Evra changed how many times Suarez was supposed to have abused him and even the word that Suarez said multiple times. He first told the ref that Suarez called him black, after the game he claimed Suarez called him the N world (the bad one) 5 times and then it later changed to Negro (which is the Spanish word for black) 8(?) times.

I've no doubt that Suarez would do pretty much anything to gain an advantage on the pitch however Evra's evidence was far from reliable, as it was during the whole Chelsea groundsmen thing when the FA said as much.

So Suarez was using his skin colour in a non offensive way, as part of a sentence which was specifically trying to offend him?

I genuinely can't believe Liverpool fans are still beating this drum. I thought you all magically gained some kind of ethical compass about his actions once he left.

The guy I knew who used to rage against it went through the whole spectrum as further evidence was released:
Suarez never said it, Evra lied.
Suarez said it as a term of endearment.
Suarez said it while insulting him, but it wasn't part of the insult.
And then when he left - He was always a nasty piece of work, I never believed he didn't say it.

Interestingly, from step 2 onwards Evra was still somehow the villain of the piece for ... telling the truth about it.

Excuse me? What you said was simply wrong. If you go back to the thread on here at the time and you will find that I said that I believed Suarez was guilty.

He didn't admit to saying what he was charged with, as you claimed and as I corrected though. What Suarez admitted to saying was neither a term of endearment nor meant to cause offence. From what I remember, he admitted to asking Evra "why black/negro", in response to Evra getting mad at him, which as I said, the FA's linguistic expert claimed wouldn't be considered offensive in South American Spanish dialect.

Just to be clear so you don't get confused, I can say that what you claimed was wrong (because it was) and still not believe Suarez was innocent. I even can say that Evra's evidence was inconsistent and unreliable (which it was) and think Suarez was still guilty.

 

[BaZ87]

Anyway - I'm stepping away from this. The argument was settled years ago for anyone not in some weird denial.

You say that but your comments on the incident have been factually incorrect and you have jumped to incorrect conclusions when people have corrected you.

 

[adam cool dude]

Poor Jimenez. That's his career finished. No way he can play again.

Also did Suarez apologize or not?

 

[Janesy B]

He has two of the best attackers in the country. His United sides scored a bucket too, didn't mean he was any less anti-football. He always sets up his teams to stop other teams playing rather than trying to do anything themselves.

Read this about 10 times and it still doesn't make sense. Really don't think you understand what anti-football is.

What manager sets their team up to allow the opposition to play exactly how they want?

 

[Shamikebab]

Read this about 10 times and it still doesn't make sense. Really don't think you understand what anti-football is.

What manager sets their team up to allow the opposition to play exactly how they want?

Yes I forgot it was a binary 1 or 0 thing. If you don't understand anti-football you can do some googling and educate yourself.

 

[Shamikebab]

The weird thing is from what I've seen South Americans post, Negrito is a term that isn't even about race. It's used to people of all skin colours and is an endearment like dude.

 

[ThestigGT999]

Bernardo Silva only got a one-game ban, why would Cavani get more than 3?

 

[BaZ87]

The weird thing is from what I've seen South Americans post, Negrito is a term that isn't even about race. It's used to people of all skin colours and is an endearment like dude.

I'm not sure it's quite that straight forward. IIRC, it roughly translates as 'little blackie' but is often used in a non offensive way towards white people with darker features.