Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [1st - 4th Jan 2021]

fez

fez

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They don't belong to me but I'd love to know what upsets you about them. You do accept that a shot from 50 yards is less likely to result in a goal than one from 2 yards out? All xg does is detail how likely shots are to result in goals based on 1000000s of historical shots and goals scored.

I don't understand how they can decide how good a chance was based on where it was taken from. Once you get within a certain distance of goal there are far more important things to consider.

How does it factor in how fast the ball is travelling, what direction its coming from, what defenders are where, where the keeper is, whether the player is left or right footed, if they are off balance, if a tackle is being made when hes trying to strike the ball.
 
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I think we (United) were incredibly lucky there. If I had to draw a pie chart of Rashford in the final 3rd it would be 45 percent offside, 45 percent hitting the ball right at the ******* keeper and the other 10 would be goals.

Whilst James was useful against Leeds due to how much space they leave, again, he comes on and shows how much football intelligence he lacks. Towards the end of the game he receives the ball on the counter, cuts in where there's no space and loses possession.
 
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They don't belong to me but I'd love to know what upsets you about them. You do accept that a shot from 50 yards is less likely to result in a goal than one from 2 yards out? All xg does is detail how likely shots are to result in goals based on 1000000s of historical shots and goals scored.

They don't upset me I actually wanted to know them because it looked to me that United created the better chances even though it felt like Villa were pushing :p
 

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Second on goals scored and only team in the prem to have won ten games. You cannot say Ole has blagged it all. Also the reason our squad is good is because he has improved so many players ten fold.

Not convinced he has improved players 10 fold. Fernandes has improved the team massively because he is picking passes and transitions which is something we were sorely missing. He doesn't try to hold off a man and beat him 3 times before making a pass like Pogba.

AWB doesn't come off as the brightest of buttons does he.
 
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Yeah I’d say it’s more of a Fernandes impact on the other players than Ole. He wasn’t exactly ‘improving the players ten fold’ before he came along was he?
Martial is hardly having the best of seasons either.
 
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Cracking game, after the first 10 mins it was pretty balanced. I love Watkins but Villa desperately need more attacking options. I'd play Konsa and Hause all day long, Mings shouldn't be automatically back in the lineup after the suspension. Good game, wish we'd got some points.
 
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Not convinced he has improved players 10 fold. Fernandes has improved the team massively because he is picking passes and transitions which is something we were sorely missing. He doesn't try to hold off a man and beat him 3 times before making a pass like Pogba.

AWB doesn't come off as the brightest of buttons does he.

Rashford, Martial, McSauce, Fred, Luke Shaw, Introduction of Greenwood have all come on massively since Jose.

Pogba also played some of his best stuff in a very long time but he needs a slap for missing that goal.
 

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Rashford, Martial, McSauce, Fred, Luke Shaw, Introduction of Greenwood have all come on massively since Jose.

Rashford has improved, McSauce and Fred have improved but Fred just needed a proper run in the team. Luke Shaw is still not the same player he was before he broke his leg so its hard to argue hes improved. Greenwood has been slated for great things for years now so its hard to say how much of that is Ole.

Pogba also played some of his best stuff in a very long time but he needs a slap for missing that goal.

Pogba needs a slap for many reasons.
 
Don
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I don't understand how they can decide how good a chance was based on where it was taken from. Once you get within a certain distance of goal there are far more important things to consider.

How does it factor in how fast the ball is travelling, what direction its coming from, what defenders are where, where the keeper is, whether the player is left or right footed, if they are off balance, if a tackle is being made when hes trying to strike the ball.
Firstly, when you're looking at literally thousands upon thousands of goals these things will generally even themselves out however they do look at a number of variables on top of the the position the shot is taken from. It's these variables that lead to slight differences in xg depending on who is compiling the stats.

Obviously there will be some instances where the xg doesn't accurately reflect on the chance in question but there is also a much more detailed xg2 which looks everything from how cleanly the ball was struck, swerve etc. You might not like it but clubs are spending fortunes on egg heads to develop this data more and more. What we're talking about is nothing compared to what clubs are looking at now.
They don't upset me I actually wanted to know them because it looked to me that United created the better chances even though it felt like Villa were pushing :p
There was next to nothing in it outside the penalty. Utd's was around 2.5 to Villa's 1.6 and the pen is about 0.8 of that 2.5
 
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The problem we have is that Ole still isn't making us a better team and the same issues we have always had are not fixed. Ole is incapable of fixing them so we will be stuck poking around top 4 until we have a prolonged bad spell and he gets sacked. We have a great squad that is capable of much more than Ole is getting from them.

We are joint top because other teams have had poor seasons not because we are playing really well.

Yep, we are capable of title winning quality in matches for short periods, but I can't see it being sustained long enough to do much good beyond top 4.
 

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I don’t have any issue with xG it’s just another thing that seems somewhat ill suited to a game like football. All the sports that use statistical analysis effectively in this manner are very simple games comparatively.

Im sure teams are ploughing money into this as any small improvement it might offer is worth millions. When a duff transfer could cost you £50m what’s a few million on analysis.

I just can’t see how they can factor in everything you would need to along with the skill of the player involved and how well the keeper performs. Fernandes hitting a shot vs Wan Bissaka hitting a shot is a very different prospect.

It’s why VAR works so well for some sports and not so well for football.
 
Don
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I don’t have any issue with xG it’s just another thing that seems somewhat ill suited to a game like football. All the sports that use statistical analysis effectively in this manner are very simple games comparatively.

Im sure teams are ploughing money into this as any small improvement it might offer is worth millions. When a duff transfer could cost you £50m what’s a few million on analysis.

I just can’t see how they can factor in everything you would need to along with the skill of the player involved and how well the keeper performs. Fernandes hitting a shot vs Wan Bissaka hitting a shot is a very different prospect.

It’s why VAR works so well for some sports and not so well for football.
I agree it's not as easy to do with football than it is something like baseball but they are doing it. xg really is just the headline thing that we see and talk about but they go much further back in moves and look at each and every pass in the build-up to attacks. Clubs can tell you just how involved midfielders or even defenders are to the build-up of goals.

It's really not such an alien thing either. What does xg teach you - how good a finisher somebody is. Clubs had scouts doing that by eye for years. This just quantifies that opinion and enables clubs to scout 1000s of players without even watching them play. Likewise it enables clubs to quantify the involvement that a player like a Thiago has - he's not somebody that will score or assist much but they have xgbuildup that spells out just how important he is to a sides attacking play.

Obviously they'll scout them in person at some point but the data allows them to pick out players that are overperforming so they can focus their scouting. And of course you don't need stats to see that Thiago is a god but when trying to identify the next Thiago, playing in Peru u-17 football, this data will flag potential players up that clubs wouldn't typically be able to scout.

It's not just useful for transfers but also tactics too. If you're able to see that a certain attacking routine is more effective against a particular opponent, having as much of that sort of information available to you is priceless. Again, clubs will have looked at these things with the naked eye for years but this data just goes that step further and makes it easier for clubs to notice these patterns.

It's not a coincidence that the clubs that have been first onboard with this stuff have overperformed compared to their budget. As I said before, it's not just Liverpool that went big on it early. Leicester, Brentford, the Redbull teams, the Dainish team Liverpool played in the CL, AZ Alkmaar are a few others that have really benefited by being smarter than other sides in the transfer market.
 
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xG is a cool stat, just as long as people understand it's not the only stat that is useful and it's not perfect.

Surprised to see Smith complaining about VAR when his players were diving to try and win penalties and getting away with throwing arms into faces.
 
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xG is a cool stat, just as long as people understand it's not the only stat that is useful and it's not perfect.

Surprised to see Smith complaining about VAR when his players were diving to try and win penalties and getting away with throwing arms into faces.

I know it is not VAR really but he has to remember the real reason Villa stayed up last season. Hawkeye and yes the ref was on Villa's side big time. We ended up with 22 fouls and 4 yellows to their 10 and 0!
 
Soldato
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I know it is not VAR really but he has to remember the real reason Villa stayed up last season. Hawkeye and yes the ref was on Villa's side big time. We ended up with 22 fouls and 4 yellows to their 10 and 0!


You did try and take Grealish out of the game when Matic came on. Thinking the ref was on Villas side "big time" is hilarious when you get that penalty and Shaw isnt carded for body checking someone who absolutely skinned him.
 
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You did try and take Grealish out of the game when Matic came on. Thinking the ref was on Villas side "big time" is hilarious when you get that penalty and Shaw isnt carded for body checking someone who absolutely skinned him.

I guess you didn't see Tyrone Mings elbow to the face then.

There was also one where Shaw "skinned" as you put it one of their players who fell over with little to no contact to be rewarded a free kick.
 
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