Virgin Media Discussion Thread

Cyber-Mav · 11 Jan 2021 at 14:13

DOCSIS regardless of version wont be able to compete with fiber direct to the house. fiber optic cables are capable of 10gig up and down so in the long run virgin will be at a disadvantage.

Avalon · 11 Jan 2021 at 14:19

Cyber-Mav said:
DOCSIS regardless of version wont be able to compete with fiber direct to the house. fiber optic cables are capable of 10gig up and down so in the long run virgin will be at a disadvantage.

Between RFoG and 3.1 bringing the capability of both faster than gigabit and symmetrical speeds, I wouldn’t worry too much. Also Virgin has fibre to the pit in many areas along with duct to the property edge, change is a lot less expensive for them if/when it’s eventually worth doing.

Ayahuasca · 11 Jan 2021 at 14:22

If they ever move to DOCSIS 4.0 it's capable of 10Gbit/s up and down. 3.1 can do 10 down and 1-2 up. It's probably 5-10 years away at the very least considering many areas aren't even 3.1 yet.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...-eyes-future-10gbps-and-docsis-4-upgrade.html

I'm not sure there's going to be much incentive any time soon from the government for residential connections above Gigabit.

Cyber-Mav · 11 Jan 2021 at 15:15

agreed on above residential above 1gbit is probably not needed but when possible it makes stuff like cloud storage all the more useful.

Cyber-Mav · 11 Jan 2021 at 15:17

Avalon said:
Between RFoG and 3.1 bringing the capability of both faster than gigabit and symmetrical speeds, I wouldn’t worry too much. Also Virgin has fibre to the pit in many areas along with duct to the property edge, change is a lot less expensive for them if/when it’s eventually worth doing.

that virgin cable from what i can see is just a single or possibly dual copper wire job, what frequency are they running to get 10gbit from it? even cat6a gonna struggle over 10gbit if length is high.

Avalon · 11 Jan 2021 at 16:50

Cyber-Mav said:
that virgin cable from what i can see is just a single or possibly dual copper wire job, what frequency are they running to get 10gbit from it? even cat6a gonna struggle over 10gbit if length is high.

You’re trying to compare things that aren’t really comparable.

https://www.cablelabs.com/technologies/docsis-4-0-technology

3.1 is technically capable of 10Gb down and 1-2Gb up, 4 brings the upload up to 6Gb.

Cyber-Mav · 11 Jan 2021 at 18:16

Then why is upload so limited on virgin? Even docsis 3 should be 5 times higher than what virgin offer now but from what the engineer told me at time of install is that the network virgin have setup will never get upload matching download.

JohnG7 · 11 Jan 2021 at 18:20

Originally the network was never deigned for internet, it was for TV which is one direction, it cost them far more to give you UL than DL on cable but that is changing with the above mentioned upgrades.

The UL on 1Gb/s (your above Q) is officially 50Mb/s but due to the 10% Contention you can see up to 55Mb/s.

There was talk of VM retuning to a 10/1 ratio and some Tiers are right now so 1000/100 would be nice.

ChrisD. · 11 Jan 2021 at 19:04

When I finally move house I’ll be taking the higher speed as it’s the only option for the increased upload. And 500 meg isn’t too much more than 350. I’d be fine with 200 or so download to crunch through those game updates.

JohnG7 · 11 Jan 2021 at 19:14

500 is 1/3ish faster than 350, 150Mb/s is faster than many have period.

Also the UL on 500 is same as 350 so 35Mb/s.

Journey · 11 Jan 2021 at 19:23

Well they've already called back begging, but I said unless they can do 350Mbps for less than £30 per month I'll go with someone else.

xb8browney · 11 Jan 2021 at 20:40

I'm not sure you'll get that. Maybe £34 and some credit.

Journey · 11 Jan 2021 at 20:42

xb8browney said:
I'm not sure you'll get that. Maybe £34 and some credit.

That's fine, it works out the same in the long run, £34 with £75 credit brings it down to £30 for 18 months, if they want me tied in for 18 months they need to make sure it'll be the best/cheapest I can get for that time frame or I'll happily settle for a lower speed at 1/2 the cost elsewhere.

MehulLakhani · 11 Jan 2021 at 22:35

Well they've already called back begging, but I said unless they can do 350Mbps for less than £30 per month I'll go with someone else.

Hi, I just phoned up to leave due to price increases etc. About 8pm . Got through to a Uk callcentre, lovely lady. Pushed her a bit, went to £30 per month, then went to £27.50/month when I told her that I could get Sky FTTP now in my area. This was for an 18month contract, and protected against any price increases. This is for M350, with no phone line or TV etc etc

Journey · 11 Jan 2021 at 22:36

MehulLakhani said:
Hi, I just phoned up to leave due to price increases etc. About 8pm . Got through to a Uk callcentre, lovely lady. Pushed her a bit, went to £30 per month, then went to £27.50/month when I told her that I could get Sky FTTP now in my area. This was for an 18month contract, and protected against any price increases. This is for M350, with no phone line or TV etc etc

That is good to know thanks, will keep that in mind when I talk to them again. How long had you been with them?

MehulLakhani · 11 Jan 2021 at 22:43

Journey said:
That is good to know thanks, will keep that in mind when I talk to them again. How long had you been with them?

Just checked - my install was Dec 2018

Journey · 11 Jan 2021 at 22:46

MehulLakhani said:
Just checked - my install was Dec 2018

Thanks, that is helpful ammo to help the fight for a fair price!

Avalon · 12 Jan 2021 at 00:23

Cyber-Mav said:
Then why is upload so limited on virgin? Even docsis 3 should be 5 times higher than what virgin offer now but from what the engineer told me at time of install is that the network virgin have setup will never get upload matching download.

It's limited on anything approaching a national ISP such as OR or VM, it's only alt-net providers who offer symmetrical services and they cover a tiny proportion of the UK at present. Just because a standard is capable of a certain speed doesn’t mean that every single implementation will be configured for it, same way OR choose to sell 900Mbit FTTP when it's easy enough to do 1Gbit or 10Gbit. The majority of people buy broadband based on the 'big number' or its advertised download speed. That's the way the industry has always been since ADSL was a thing, mostly it's down to cost and attempting to differentiate your markets.

The 'engineer' is not actually an engineer, he's an installer who has next to no insight into what does or doesn't happen at a network or commercial level. Would I expect symmetrical uploads? No, it's unlikely, but I would expect them to improve once the 3.1 upgrade happens across the network, remember the focus of the whole industry is in providing ~~gigabit~~ ultra fast broadband to the masses, nobody said that was supposed to be symmetrical.

Cyber-Mav · 12 Jan 2021 at 08:52

with these docsis changes its not the actual cable they come out and replace so how far can the current installed cables go?

after all its just copper coax cable been around for decades.

HEADRAT · 12 Jan 2021 at 11:13

Shamelessly ripped from Wiki

Coaxial cable was used in the first (1858) and following transatlantic cable installations, but its theory wasn't described until 1880 by English physicist, engineer, and mathematician Oliver Heaviside, who patented the design in that year (British patent No. 1,407)

You can't keep a good cable down it seems