Big Tech Authoritarianism

Associate
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2,231
What are you even trying to prove? Not being able to post on Twitter is nothing like being told you can't read or write in English. He can still say what he wants to whoever he wants, he just can't expect others to be willing to publish it.

Lets say the older generation of people ~60+ who still hold voting power. Do you think they get all their information from Twitter?

Old people can use twitter if they want as younger people can ... read a newspaper?

It's not that far to say that The ISP's revoke the internet from somebody, and the electric companies revoke power to somebody because they don't agree with (insert non-popular wrong think here). You could start your own internet, or buy a generator.



As a guess as religion is often how people live their lives if they were brought up in a certain way. If, as it is in a few religions, you grew up saying you weren't supposed to eat pigs you live your life trying to not eat pigs. That is directly affecting how you are able to live you life.

Being a fan/more in line with the Blue or Red team doesn't say what you can and can't do in life so it doesn't govern you the same way a religion does. Do you think someone deciding to support a particular football team should also be a protected characteristic? Because that's basically all political parties are.

It's not that far different. You can change religion, you can decide later in life to find a god... or not but its still protected.

If you support the green party you will probably change your life towards renewables and live in a field. If you are red team then you will probably give money to the the local smack-head for his fix and the blueteam, probably steal from the smack-head to fund your yacht. Each of these will influence the way you live your life.
 
Capodecina
Soldato
Joined
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12,129
[Twitter is not] just a platform. It's not. Its an integral method of communicating. . . .
Agreed.

Twitter, Facebook, etc. have long argued that they are just "Platforms", not in any way responsible for what appears on them.

They have finally started to acknowledge that they are actually "Publishers", responsible for what appears on them - ABOUT TIME!
 
Soldato
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I'm suggesting that she is purposefully using that inaccurate and inflammatory term to further her own agenda, exactly because she does know what a real coup actually looks like. Stop trying to wriggle out of reasoning, it's amazing that you are suggesting and indeed supporting the idea that this rabble has actually tried to stage a bona fide coup. I'm fact checking you ;)

And her agenda is?? She has worked for Bush, Obama and Trump administrations. She worked for Bolton who is pretty conservative. Maybe being an expert in authoritarian regimes she saw signs in what is happening that has made her very concerned.

Clearly this wasn't what we would call a classic coup attempt. Normally that is a violent act to seize power, normally from a democratically elected leader/government. This was an attempt to keep power after losing an election using violence. Trump has been sowing the seeds for this for years. Back in 2016 he called into question the elections, saying they'd be rigged. He spent pretty much all of 2020 saying the election would be rigged and if he lost it would be stolen. He lost fair and square but has spend everyday since then saying he won by a landslide and it was stolen by massive voter fraud with no evidence to back it up. He's been telling his followers they had to fight or loose their country. He's been winding his MAGA nuts up for months. He told them to come to DC on the 6th. He told them the election result was going to be thrown out with their help. You only have to read sites like thedonald.win to see this is what they all believed. They were coming to DC to force Congress to install Trump or fight to force that to happen. There are threads on there with people saying they said goodbye to their families as they were prepared to die trying to get Trump another term. You might dismiss sites like thedonald.win but it has a huge following, the traffic to it is ridiculous. Parler was as bad if not worse. Clearly not everyone went there to carry out this violence to reverse the election result but lots did. If they'd got their hands on Reps I've no doubts there would have been murders.
 
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He still did though.

Sure thing. :) The initial refusal (or it could well just have been his standard stupid word garbage to be fair) did more to promote the "proud boys" then anything in their history, it quite literally emboldened them and became their catch phrase.

Either way Trump is bang to rights on all counts he has been accused of. :)
 
Associate
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Sure thing. :) The initial refusal (or it could well just have been his standard stupid word garbage to be fair) did more to promote the "proud boys" then anything in their history, it quite literally emboldened them and became their catch phrase.

Either way Trump is bang to rights on all counts he has been accused of. :)

So even though your fact got proven wrong, it's still right. Classic.
 
Soldato
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Edit: you also seem to be posting on here... a form of social media. It's not one of the biggies, but it is a form of it.

I don't really count a forum as social media. On here I'm just Junglist who appears to look like Silvio. It's more of a discussion board, at least that's how I see it. But I can see how it's counted towards social media. I do also use Instagram and snapchat but again, it's for me anyway, not in the same vein of things like Facebook and Twitter.

The main issue is not so much the whole TOS bit but rather how big tech has encroached on our lives and more importantly how society functions, given the recent events. We have, in essence, replaced the notion of "public square" with Twitter and Facebook, who are busy scalping our personal data, habits and more for advertising revenue. Then they are busy curating what we see through their feed mechanisms.

Twitter and Facebook are wholly insufficient platforms for any sort of reasoned public debate about important issues and instead they tend to stoke up division and emotion, I think they are quite literally tearing the west apart, we're eating ourselves. It makes me inclined to think that they are antithetical to how we, as human beings, are supposed to interact in communities. On top of this, in the background, we are busy centralising access to computing resources with a few large providers (e.g. AWS, MSFT, Google). Recipe for future disaster since we are so dependent on technology to do things in modern society. If big tech giants control the equivalent of the public square, it's bad. If you then try to build an equivalent community somewhere else, you are booted from the computing providers. Then where do you go?

We must decentralise heavily, break up monopolies and put protections into law (i.e. we have a say via vote, not rely on some unelected tech execs). As an early worker at Google and Amazon, I've long said that the threat is sort of socialist technocracy and it appears we are already there.

Really agree with you regarding the bit in bold. Social media isn't normal and communicating that way should really be an exception and not the norm. It's like on forums, words are fantastic and get you very far but, speaking personally, I can often get the tone wrong as you don't have the social cues to pick up on. It's like that Key and Peele sketch where two friends are texting one another. One is being super chill and the other is reading it in an antagonistic way. A lot can get lost when just reading words on a screen.

I also agree that monopolies are not good for anyone (other than the owner of that monopoly I suppose) but as hard as it is, it is a free market. Just need someone to have a new idea and if they build it and it's good, people will come. It's obviously nigh on impossible to compete with the big boys as they have such a grasp on it all but it doesn't mean it can't happen.

I'm sure Bebo, MySpace et all thought no one would better them. Same can happen for FB and Twitter.

Despite all of that though. I don't see why a private entity should be forced to do something the owners don't agree with. Regardless of how many people use it on a daily basis, it's not theirs and it doesn't mean people are entitled to use it.

I understand why people are arguing against it but I just disagree as if Twitter is a birth right. It's a service provided by someone. It's a service that when you signed up and presumably (didn't) read the terms of service you agreed to what is and what isn't permitted on the platform.

You could say your free speech is being indirectly suppressed as you don't have access to that platform but your actual free speech hasn't been affected at all. Trump has not lost the right to say what he wants to say he has just lost the ability to say what he wants on a service that isn't his.

If I started spouting (just as an example) lots of racist, xenophobic, sexist and what ever other 'ist' you can think of on here wouldn't the company or mods be well within their rights to remove me from this platform? Why would they want my comments that some may say are in bad taste tied to their platform? Why should a platform holder be forced to host any views that they don't like?


Old people can use twitter if they want as younger people can ... read a newspaper?

It's not that far to say that The ISP's revoke the internet from somebody, and the electric companies revoke power to somebody because they don't agree with (insert non-popular wrong think here). You could start your own internet, or buy a generator.

OK but what if the ISP cuts you off for doing something they required you not to do? If an ISP said "anyone found to do illegal downloads will be cut off" and you go ahead and download some copyright stuff - is that a problem?

If you breech your terms of contract you have no one to blame but yourself.

Wiley got banned from Twitter not so long ago for saying all sorts of anti-Semitic things, do you think he should've been allowed to remain on Twitter, if so, why?


It's not that far different. You can change religion, you can decide later in life to find a god... or not but its still protected.

If you support the green party you will probably change your life towards renewables and live in a field. If you are red team then you will probably give money to the the local smack-head for his fix and the blueteam, probably steal from the smack-head to fund your yacht. Each of these will influence the way you live your life.

You can change your religion in life but it's not as straight forward as one day choosing a new political party or football team. Someone who has been in a religion from birth is going to find it a lot harder to change than someone who became interested in politics later in life.
 
Associate
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Fact is correct. During the presidential debate he refused to condemn white supremacist group the proud boys and emboldened them instead.

He did denounce them though. The link I posted proved it. You said he didn't, I posted a link to prove he did. Doesn't matter how long it took, the fact is he still did. This is the problem with censorship on places like Twitter, Jack Dorsey has a predetermined opinion of something and no matter the facts it still gets yeeted. You're the same, fact is proven wrong but you refuse to acknowledge and still harp back to Orange Man Bad.
 
Transmission breaker
Don
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Fact is correct. During the presidential debate he refused to condemn white supremacist group the proud boys and emboldened them instead.

Again, its very easy to just claim this, but his words do not match with what you claim.

He also clarified after it became clear there was some confusion about the "Proud Boys". (Who i fully believe he had no idea about before being asked the Q)

I have read the supposed interpretations and I personally just don't see the connections being made as valid.

Like I said before, I am sure there are a LOT of things that we can pull Trump up on, but this is not the way to do it. Its like a massive strawman argument. We see a lot of them on these forums :D
 
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Again, its very easy to just claim this, but his words do not match with what you claim.

He also clarified after it became clear there was some confusion about the "Proud Boys". (Who i fully believe he had no idea about before being asked the Q)

I have read the supposed interpretations and I personally just don't see the connections being made as valid.

Like I said before, I am sure there are a LOT of things that we can pull Trump up on, but this is not the way to do it. Its like a massive strawman argument. We see a lot of them on these forums :D

His exact words match. He emboldened white supremacist group the proud boys, they used it as a slogan.

This may well have been a mistake/didnt know who they were/was a standard poor choice of words but he did it. No interpretation is required. :)
 
Associate
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There has always been a limit on free speech, and inciting violence is one of them.

Whilst I am an advocate to allowing and listening to opposing views, Trump did shout fire in a crowded theatre.
 
Soldato
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What is abundantly clear is that even if Trump was right about the election, or that his banning from Twitter was unfair. The people who don’t support him are so partisan and full of hate that they don’t care. And likewise if he’s wrong and the ban was just, his supporters are full of hate and they don’t care.

That’s the sad part. Both sides are so dogmatic. I’ve hated this invasion of American political culture into the UK. It’s truly sad. It’s brought out the ugly in so many people.

I think people need to find beauty in their life rather than resorting to insulting people on the internet who don’t believe in the same things as themself.
 
Soldato
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@Mason- I agree the pure divisiveness in American politics and it's copying in the UK is truly sad. Even worse we're important American issues that aren't weren't issues in the UK and then laying about with the same bitterness as the Americans. I'm so glad I'm a Gen Xer, I do worry for my kids though heavens knows how much further public discourse is set to sink.
 
Soldato
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The guys done nothing but lie. Anything that damages his ability to influence people with said lies is only a good thing.

I can't wait until he fades into utter irrelevance.

To be honest though, the entire situation is so ridiculous that it seems futile to focus on any one part of it.
 
Soldato
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Again, its very easy to just claim this, but his words do not match with what you claim.

He also clarified after it became clear there was some confusion about the "Proud Boys". (Who i fully believe he had no idea about before being asked the Q)

I have read the supposed interpretations and I personally just don't see the connections being made as valid.

Like I said before, I am sure there are a LOT of things that we can pull Trump up on, but this is not the way to do it. Its like a massive strawman argument. We see a lot of them on these forums :D

You can't be serious about that part in bold. He knew exactly who the Proud Boys were. He has an ego that is out of control, it dominates his life. You honestly think he doesn't revel in the adulation from a very public group like the Proud Boys? There is a reason people kiss Trump's arse and lick his boots with ridiculous over the top public flattery, its because it means everything to him. PB leaders have been photographed with some of the biggest names in the GOP including Trump's sons. They all know who the group is.
 
Soldato
Joined
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22,166
Again, its very easy to just claim this, but his words do not match with what you claim.

He also clarified after it became clear there was some confusion about the "Proud Boys". (Who i fully believe he had no idea about before being asked the Q)

I have read the supposed interpretations and I personally just don't see the connections being made as valid.

Like I said before, I am sure there are a LOT of things that we can pull Trump up on, but this is not the way to do it. Its like a massive strawman argument. We see a lot of them on these forums :D
Generally leaders of the free world should keep their mouth shut if they do not know what is going on.

Bizarre you people back this guy. You must be in the same disenfranchised group that must see the world through black and white as his most loyal MAGA supporters. Presumably the same group who get confused by government guidance to stay at home

It is a good insight into how AI will process the data though. AI also struggles to get tone, meaning and 'inaction'. It also sluggishly squirrels away at surviving whilst doing/being unable to do anything about it (self identifying as proletariat, lol).
 
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