The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Soldato
Joined
24 Apr 2013
Posts
3,067
Season 2 of the Premier Division in the Zwift Racing League starts tonight at 19:15 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UKxtlsPjlo

We won the EMEA W A1 league in season 1 so have been promoted into the Premier Division which runs on Monday nights.
I've spent the past 3 weeks organising and submitting insane amounts of data for the 10 rider roster for it and it is finally time to hit the start line for it with all the work behind me now.
I am not racing tonight, not feeling too great and 19:15 is an awful time for dads in UK with young kiddo's.

Start List is here - https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1500567
Rammed full of the best guys on Zwift and heaps of Conti level professional riders. Many guys in there just represented their countries at the UCI eSports World Champs.
Live broadcast should be pretty cool for this. Not like the usual community live streams it should be very much like the UCI event which was on Eurosport if you watched that back in early December.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
3 Apr 2003
Posts
15,627
Location
Cambridge
Season 2 of the Premier Division in the Zwift Racing League starts tonight at 19:15 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UKxtlsPjlo

We won the EMEA W A1 league in season 1 so have been promoted into the Premier Division which runs on Monday nights.
I've spent the past 3 weeks organising and submitting insane amounts of data for the 10 rider roster for it and it is finally time to hit the start line for it with all the work behind me now.
I am not racing tonight, not feeling too great and 19:15 is an awful time for dads in UK with young kiddo's.

Start List is here - https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1500567
Rammed full of the best guys on Zwift and heaps of Conti level professional riders. Many guys in there just represented their countries at the UCI eSports World Champs.
Live broadcast should be pretty cool for this. Not like the usual community live streams it should be very much like the UCI event which was on Eurosport if you watched that back in early December.
[
Awesome! Good luck and looking forward to this!
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,432
Location
Hereford
I've signed up to the tour de zwift starting on 4 January, but as a total newb, I'm not sure how it works.
How are you getting on?

I missed Stage 1 but got into Stage 2. Chose Richmond and it was utterly brutal, but then that's my choice to do the 'Long Ride' option for each and to race it.

https://www.strava.com/activities/4600945878
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1488454

I started in around 380th at the start after telling myself not to push out the gate and make up places after. Sure enough soon then be making bridging efforts into groups up the road just within reach... You know how it is 'this one feels slow, but that one looks faster and I can just about make it...'! To then be in a massive group pushing 3 just to hold and doing turns at 4+ to catch yet more... Needless to say I found myself probably going harder than I should, but did manage to rest a little before the climbs. Then as the group was so big it got smashed to pieces with me making the 'front'. So second lap then trying to form up before smashing apart again! Still great fun and my times on the climbs where very consistent... Still that 3rd one (Grovenor) always hurts me as it's such a drag my kick is useless there. Finished 128th on screen, which was 99th on ZP (of 400).

May well be. Beginning to think I need another bike fit, though nothings moved or changed, that I know of.
Could be if it's been a while. Physiologies an bodies can change, especially changes in fitness and core affecting how you're positioning on the bike. Slight tweaks can work too, as your fit should still be close enough to diagnose and try some small adjustments yourself. Small ones & make a note of your starting points so you can reverse! But you know that already ;)

Ambient temperature obviously low, but it doesn’t seem to have been working effectively before, very old thermal compound. I’m not sure if I’ll restore the overclock or not. Do some more testing first and see how ambient temperature affects the cpu core temp.
Glad to hear you seem to have found the issue. I'd say run it a while at factory and see how it behaves. If it's rock solid then really your call about getting a few extra FPS are worth the chance of making it unstable again (or in a few years once the paste gets old again!).

Drop me a trust, I have another code now if you still want it.
Legend as always, extra kudos for helping people out! :D

I stupidly picked a random Zwift workout the other day. Wave Rider. I thought... let's try erg mode. Turns out with 15s efforts erg mode really didn't work well. One moment I'm spinning 130rpm not meeting target power (495w) and the next I'm struggling to turn the cranks at 40rpm. It was a really hard session in the end. Pretty sure I epic failed the efforts but the 5 min threshold efforts were OK. Not the best idea just after recovering from a cold!

I was a bit confused that there were no other riders during my session. Is that normal for workouts?
The inbuilt solo ones I think just have a blank world. Not even sure if you 'appear' to others (even though you can't see them). The group ones you join it can be toggled by the Leader/ride setup on if you can see others outside of the group (or not) and if you can be affected by them (or not).

ERG issue does just sound like lag from your trainer & setup. There's so much of it and ERG with big intervals like that is just brutal and unforgiving if you can't stay ontop of the gear. Some trainers are better than others at ERG and the cadence side of things, its obviously 'easier' for them to apply resistance the faster your cadence (without it feeling like a wall), with changes in cadence while they're trying to adjust compounding things more. But most short intervals with big power changes really don't seem to work very well for most trainers. Think the H2 is about the 'best' with the KICKR and Neo being 'good'. My Flux is terrible at them.

Decided to do a group ride last night at last minute. Jumped in with no warm up and thought "Well, it's not a race is it?". How wrong was I. Probably some power PBs beyond 30 mins. Got dropped up the first hill and then was in no man's land for a few minutes before a smaller group formed. That group got split up again next time on the hill. Kinda good fun though. My face was on fire afterwards from sweat stinging it.
What ride was it? You changed the ride title so can't easily tell, I'm also too lazy to go back through and scan for rides at that day/time ;)

EDIT: TDZ Stage 2. So many in TDZ they really are ridden like races. Some ride them as social/group rides but most race as they tend to draw a huge amount of riders you can generally ride them how you like...

A lot of my friends have gone with Peleton but it looks mega expensive and you're locked into them from what I can see.
Pro's and Con's for each of those ecosystems as you say, but basically the 'smart trainers' (or smart bikes) we're generally using here are more compatible as they're made to be used with various systems. Zwift and TrainerRoad are only 2 of them, but largely trainers compatible with them use some fairly broad and universal standards for communication over BT/BTLE/ANT+.

The more closed the ecosystem (like Peloton and whatever the Echelon is) the harder it is to use them for various other things. They're either using their own standards, or are using secured/encrypted BT/ANT which Zwift/TR/etc have not been given access to. Look at the steps DCR had to go through to get Zwift working on a Peloton. It's not impossible, but why buy into an expensive bike and ecosystem like that, if you're not going to use it for that.

yes, I need structure - and this looks like the answer (compared to zwift). :)
Structure is what you make of it. There's plenty of plans out there in the various systems (including Zwift), many more outside of the particular riding platforms. Coaches themselves and even things like Xert (works like a virtual coach).

Season 2 of the Premier Division in the Zwift Racing League starts tonight at 19:15 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UKxtlsPjlo
Great plug and congrats on making it in. Love all the discussion being prompted by you guys there, but you deserve your spots so goodluck (you'll need it lol) :D ;)

I'm back into WTRL TTT now after a bit of a break and restructure at 3R over the holiday. I've ended up in an Espresso team so nothing quite like an 'easy' ride back...! #pray4roady
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,432
Location
Hereford
It was the TDZ Stage 2 A group ride on Saturday night.
See above.

Yeah... They're not the typical 'group ride' you'll find an easy social like the usual ones run and adminned by a Zwift Team/Group... They're more a massive FFA on a route, with so many riders they're just a smash fest. There's no structure, or even any admin to filter out the fliers/cheats. Still, great time and good numbers on that course! :D
 
Soldato
Joined
24 Apr 2013
Posts
3,067
Cheatfests, as I refer to them.
56 year old 100KG guys from Spain on dumb trainers doing 6.2WKG average for 1 hour at 110BPM.
etc.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Feb 2004
Posts
18,157
Location
Hampshire
Cheatfests, as I refer to them.
56 year old 100KG guys from Spain on dumb trainers doing 6.2WKG average for 1 hour at 110BPM.
etc.

Is this not realistic? Asking for a friend :p

Stage 3 is a brute, jumped on at lunch and got 3/4 of the way through but realised I wouldn't complete before my call, so soft pedalled for 15 minutes, jumped on call and then Z2 to the finish. Was 50th when I eased back and managed to finish 225th overall. not bad considering the stop for 15 or so minutes. Did about 275W for the 45minute i put some effort in, not the freshest of legs after 8KM run this morning.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,432
Location
Hereford
after 8KM run this morning.
Why would you run for a bus when reading the rest of your post sounds like you're working from home? Can't think of any other reason to run... ;)

Stage 3 is hilly & mountain routes. Which did you choose?La Reine. Mountain Route. Road to Sky?

Quite tempted by Ventop as not done a complete one yet, but also want to put a decent effort into ADZ. Might do a double header this weekend!

I'm back into WTRL TTT now after a bit of a break and restructure at 3R over the holiday. I've ended up in an Espresso team so nothing quite like an 'easy' ride back...! #pray4roady
Didn't go well. Sure enough off the pace due to a lack of TTT's for a few weeks. My warmup was ruined by some grinding from my Flux and realised the freehub had come loose again and rubbing against the hanger. Got it back on and tightened up but sure enough my ~30 min warmup was then only 15 mins. Spent ~5 of that chatting on Discord. Legs good last weekend but really didn't feel good (although fresh) once we got going. Just no power when I needed it. I was concentrating too much on following a wheel, than following the course, so when he dropped a few lengths and closed them up a few times I was burning to stick with him. Got dropped and half blew up, telling them to leave me. They eased and got me back in - but when the same happened again at the base of a longer ramp/climb I just told them to go. So dropped after 8 minutes. Was absolutely gutted and disappointed in myself. Especially when afterwards I couldn't even ride the KOM at 4.0w/kg (which should be easily sustainable for me right now). I'd done nearly 10 minutes at 4.0w/kg on the weekend.

But when looking at the power data this morning, 8 minutes @294W with 3 surges and a start in there at over 400W. My FTP currently at 260W and I'm a bit below that... So was very deep for those 8 mins and can't be too disappointed! Gives me a nice target/number to work towards this spring with some better consistency with my riding (like I found before Xmas). The 8 minutes of power only a few watts off my best for the entire of 2020.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
25 Feb 2004
Posts
18,157
Location
Hampshire
Good old zwift friday update, load - log in - crash - rinse and repeat. Only fix it seems is to uninstall and reinstall! Great. Raced this morning on my phone, had rubbish legs and annoyed at the update, so slow to get going, was on the wrong bike as it was some gravel race thing. Managed 265W for 1hr20 though which wasn't bad as I died a death about 45mins in, but perked up towards the end. I relaly need to start understanding what courses I'm entering on so I've got an idea on what is coming up :p
 
Soldato
Joined
23 Nov 2004
Posts
10,646
My zwift has been pretty stable so I wonder what's going wrong at your end. It hangs when going into events but it does get there.

**** stage 3 of TDZ. Did la reine and kept riding after the finish to get to the summit. I thought it was another 10 minutes not 36 minutes or so. Madness.
Think I was 180/670 on zwift or 130th on ZP.

I struggle on climbs for some reason, I can sit at higher power on the flats but can never settle on a gear/cadence that I like. Maybe my legs were just tired from yesterday.
 
Associate
Joined
21 Jul 2008
Posts
1,734
Location
Outside the asylum
Would be good to hear back once you've done a few races on how absolutely nuts and engrossed you get with it! :D

I'd love to report back saying I was (more) hooked but I've been laid low by a virus for the last couple of weeks. Over the worst now, so tried a short gentle pedal yesterday keeping the HR well down, but even that might have been overdoing it a bit (don't tell the wife...). So it looks like I'll have to give it a bit longer and be careful building back up.

It's been the first serious bug I've had since wearing a watch that monitors HR, and it's been interesting to see my resting HR increase before I started to feel unwell.
 

SPG

SPG

Soldato
Joined
28 Jul 2010
Posts
10,255
Man I hate long rides on the trainer it's just impossible so uncomfortable can't watch a movie as the workout is just enough being hard that I can't concentrate on the movie, no matter how dumb it is. Tried watch a sketch comedy show that made me laugh I couldn't get my HR under control.

Hate it hate it hate it. Roll on spring so can get out again. No not riding in the wet/cold as can't be arsed to clean the bike :)
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,432
Location
Hereford
Well after my Flux freehub had moved again last Thursday this weekends job was to sort it. I had previously had it off doing maintenance work (changing tension arm & belt) so figures I'd just not got the spacers tight enough, or even put them back in the wrong order. This time it was more stubborn to remove. A couple of yanks and I realised it wasn't actually spinning true and possibly hadn't been for a while. Some pretty big cassette bite marks on it. More than I'd recalled before. The freehub on the Flux V1 is an 'Edco Multisys'. A design made to actually be SRAM/Shimano and Campagnolo compatible. Seems a great design? But in practice the splines are weaker and the cassette moves a little more so binds/bites more meaning removal & refitting is a pain. Before I actually got it off I could tell the innermost bearing was the culprit, feeling really rough and barely spinning with lots of resistance. I thought it had moved but it wasn't until I got the freehub off I actually discovered what had happened - the bearing had collapsed/destroyed itself. So with enough sidewards pressure (sprinting?) the innermost part of the freehub was moving off the axle, pushing itself off and the cassette lockring against the frame.

3wHxpVE.jpg
jC55rKT.jpg
EOTG8RN.jpg

The inner part of the freehub has the outer race jammed in there, the inner and what was left of the seals, bearings and cage was all loose inside the freehub. Spacer/shim holding the beearings in place has some serious scouring and damage the inner end. I tried for several hours to get the outer race out of the freehub and have given up/failed. There is not enough of a lip left to punch/drift it out (the lip it sits in inside the freehub is too large). There was a lockring in there I've removed but still couldn't budge the race. Tried heating it, drilling it, pulling it and even dremeling. As it's hardened steel it really doesn't want to budge. I've heard a 'blind bearing puller' would get this out, but finding one small enough to fit seemed like a crazy expensive tool for single use (£80+).

45Zf2xJ.jpg

Some googling and a good discussion with one of the guys in the Flux Owners Facebook group (who supplies parts), identified the bearings, but also the freehub part number T2805.01 (S) for the non-Edco one now used by Tacx on the Flux and Neo trainers (Neo 2T is different again). Using that I checked against the Tacx site (out of stock), but found one on the Garmin site (£45). Shipping time was the issue, then also found one listed on eBay which I grabbed for £30 next day delivered. Fingers crossed it arrives early this week, looks barely used. Had also come across some discussion about a 'standard Shimano 2805' freehub also fitting, but going through my wheels none of mine are those to confirm...

With the prospect of not Zwifting for several days I thought 'what the hell' and fitted a new 6802-2RS bearing to the end of the freehub (thanks Amazon Prime!) and fitted it on the trainer... It actually felt pretty good so rode it for 5 minutes. It didn't budge, with only very minor play even when standing on the pedals. So I figured a nice 'easy' stage of TDZ where I could easily sit and spin was on the cards...

Ho Ho :D

La Reine. Think I've done it once before.
:D

Did La Reine myself too, but the Zwift gremlins also attacked me... Jumped on with barely a few minutes to go (riding earlier than planned so then rushing to make the start), plus a Zwift update, meant I joined Zwift with 42s to go. By the time had teleported worlds things had already started so straight into a chasing effort. At a guess I was 5-10s down on the main packs. Then DISASTER (although nothing like above), laptop reports low battery... In my rush I'd not plugged it into the power strip! Hop off and jam it in, remount and immediately clip into the still spinning cranks (you'd have been proud of that remount!). But within a millisecond the laptop suspends. FFS! Sure enough when I get it started up again Zwift is there (phew!), but then it won't detect my sensors (anyone else get this?), faff for a few seconds but know a reboot is the only usual solve, reboot and then it won't connect to WiFi at all (argh!), hop off and cleat-run back into the house to restart the hotspot and I'm back in. Handily get the group teleport option (as 'Late Join' is enabled on these), but stupidly (thought it was a good idea at the time) I 'Join ride'. I'm then fired 10km up the road into 15th place! In a TDZ event! As you can guess things that near the front are pretty brutal.

https://www.strava.com/activities/4639011135

But miraculously, I had awesome legs. Really awesome ones! Unsure if it was the frustration, the 2 hours painting a fence earlier and 3 hours hunched over a freehub, or the large sunday roast semi-digested, but I was able to stick with these guys!? Surging over 4.0 w/kg on the flats, then holding pace at 3.6-3.8 w/kg was sustainable. INSANE (considering how my riding and volume has been the last few weeks). I knew quite early on with my start teleport I wasn't going to get a 'segment time' and possibly not even have the ride count towards a stage... But I wanted to press on and use it as a good boost of intensity to get my power back on track after the disappointment of the WTRL TTT from thursday. As the ride drew on I was gradually sliding back, but also making up some places, doing leapfrog with a couple of other guys all the way up. The field was really spread out towards the middle (as I was looking on companion app for groups behind coming up to ride with - all I found where scattered riders). I pressed on and actually broke away from the group of 5 I was riding with towards the top, 1 of them chased and got me on the line, but finished in around 34th place, which is 25th on ZP. An incredible result for me!

I rode on to get to the top of Ventop to make up for missing the earlier 10km, top is quite a slog, you come around a couple of corners across the horizon to discover another series which look almost identical before you can finally see the beacon which is at the top. Really quite cool and reminds me of the corners at the top of The Tumble (all look the same, unchanging gradient and very few landmarks so you can't determine 'how far' or how many there are. So around another 25 minutes for the top part in addition to the lower (55mins this ride, but realistically 70mins if I ride the whole thing).

My ride data breakdown isn't showing on ZP in 25th and I'm fully expecting it not to due to the late join. But riders around me I was riding with finished the climb in 1hr 10/11mins, that will be my target when I actually complete it fully. But 279W for 55 minutes is right up there as being my best ride for quite some time (FTP was only 262W from a month or so ago and I really don't feel like I have that fitness currently!). So my FTP is now 273W. I'm thinking it being a long climb with the constant resistance there really helped me. My setup and fresh legs really making me capable of that. Either that, or the crappy freehub on the trainer before has been restricting me so much, that my bodge removing so much of that resistance has now given me a more accurate measurement of my FTP...?! :o

Needless to say, I'm over the moon with those numbers and that performance (can you tell!), even with the couple of mechanical and technical glitches, just goes to show to push on regardless of whatever setbacks you have. But I am also being realistic and slightly sceptical until I've got the new freehub bedded it in and done a re-calibration and have various more rides as evidence of my higher FTP...

I relaly need to start understanding what courses I'm entering on so I've got an idea on what is coming up :p
Haha, you'll generally find the 'popular' races/rides all tend to follow quite a select group of courses and routes. Riders by their nature (especially racers) are not very adventurous, certainly most of the main races don't shake things up too much. Although there are a few series recently that have.

I struggle on climbs for some reason, I can sit at higher power on the flats but can never settle on a gear/cadence that I like. Maybe my legs were just tired from yesterday.
Tweaking 'the difficulty slider' can help with that. I have mine quite high (65/70%) so ramps and such give me enough resistance to kick against. Does see me dropped if I don't kick, but also gives me a bit of an edge when I do over those with lower sliders. I'm changing gear more to settle into cadences, but that seems to suit me. Horses for courses, so try it and see. For you, you might find the same as me - surging is a strength. Setup can also help, I found myself able to sit at a quite comfortable 80-85 rpm seated up much of Ventop due to the 34 inner ring and 28t cassette I have on there using 2-3 cogs of the cassette at most. But I was also consciously keeping that high-ish cadence to look after my freehub bodge...

I'd love to report back saying I was (more) hooked but I've been laid low by a virus for the last couple of weeks. Over the worst now
Rubbish! Don't push too hard to come back. Ease yourself back into it. Like you say, HR is pretty interesting about identifying illness, but can also be a great indicator for that recovery too!

Man I hate long rides on the trainer it's just impossible so uncomfortable can't watch a movie as the workout is just enough being hard that I can't concentrate on the movie, no matter how dumb it is. Tried watch a sketch comedy show that made me laugh I couldn't get my HR under control.

Hate it hate it hate it. Roll on spring so can get out again. No not riding in the wet/cold as can't be arsed to clean the bike :)
Just don't clean it, like I do?! May get through a few more chains than most people but more than save the money from not needing as much bike wash (not to mention the time!) :D

And trainer being uncomfortable is hard, it could be equipment, position or even screen height. For me it generally means I'm not distracted enough so I create a 'problem' of it. There's some of the Zwift group rides I'm deep into the 2nd hour before I even realise I'm uncomfortable, but then it can a slippery slope of misery if I focus on it. As long as I'm distracted enough and 'aware' of it sooner I'll alternate position, like standing on the little ramps of flat courses, to alleviate it before it becomes any more painful, or that I start to consider it a 'problem' (as I'll know I'd done some things already to combat it).
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
23 Nov 2004
Posts
10,646
As said on Strava mate really good ride. It's a ******* brute of a climb, the last section I thought every corner was the top - or I wanted it to be!

That's pretty crap for a freehub on a turbo, do you degrease the cassette whilst it's on there at all?

I've had plenty do that from road riding but would never expect it from an indoor trainer.

Got dragged off Warzone by the boss to do a race and I'm using the companion app to connect all my devices which lets me run HR now!

https://www.strava.com/activities/4651597053/analysis

I lasted about 4ish minutes in the front group with mostly As, you can see my HR/power drop as I wait for the group 14s behind. Even in this group any small ramp seems to make me hurt, winding the power up before it to get the average up makes me stay in the bunch but only just. Do the direct drives react better in that respect or do I just need to learn the game more?

Second last time over a drag on the flat course an A in the group lined it out and split it so I was on the wrong side of that but me and one other guy were no mans land as we got a gap on the back half of that group. We sat 3ish w/kg so comfortable until I decided I wan't going to the downhill finish as I can't get power out that way. I lapped my boss for a second time but I'd went deep(202bpm) so tried to slow up a bit. I saw his numbers go orange as he chased me so had to kick again and eventually rolled over the line :o.
 
Back
Top Bottom