House prices rose 7.3% this year, average now almost £250k

Status
Not open for further replies.
Soldato
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Posts
19,798
Location
Glasgow
As for your other points. Non resident landlords are already taxed higher, etc. Controls are already in place.

I'm not really going to get bogged down with the helping other people overseas issue, as it's a complete nonstarter. How far do you go with that? You do what you can, to suit your own moral code. If Foxeye was trying to show some moral highground then perhaps you'd have a point but he's not. He's simply saying that it's not fair that people are stuck in a circle of rent, unable to save to get out of it and are punished economically for that whereas he sees BTL landlords as having their cake and eat it and he doesn't think that such a demonstrable display of inequality should exist. By your argument, no one would do anything in fear of being a hypocrite. I'd rather be a hypocrite and do some good in my sphere of influence than not doing any good at all. I

Rent controls aren't in place. Landlords can charge what they want, and whilst there have been measures put in place to protect the tenant the landlord still holds the majority of the power. The landlord will say, as I do as I am one, that they are simply charging the market rate. I think we need to look at the issue of is that market rate fair? Regulations are put in place to regulate many a market, why not more so for rental and help those (who want to be helped!) who are stuck in the rent trap? Ultimately, as I am proving my self, landlords aren't going to do that. So we have two options. We either accept that tenants are punished for renting, by way of paying a lot more than they would via rent and not having that equity later in life and ask as a society are we happy to create this almost underclass? Or we regulate the rental market a lot harsher to the detriment of landlords but to the benefit of tenants. One group has to, unfortunately, lose out here. I think that all things considered, it ought to be the landlords.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
'Or we regulate the rental market a lot harsher to the detriment of landlords but to the benefit of tenants' How?

Last few years has seen significant changes
- Tax changes to tax rent income rather than profit are in place
- Removal of 10% wear and tear allowance
- Removal of tenant fees, these costs now moved to landlord
- TDS , 3rd party to mediate and hold deposits

What else do you propose?
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Apr 2009
Posts
24,796
I think we need to look at the issue of is that market rate fair?

This is the bit that I think irritates renters the most.

I currently have a 3 bed semi, mortgage is just under £700pm (around 80% LTV IIRC at the moment), very comfortable to afford as an owner.

I just searched rightmove for rental properties near me and the closest I can find is a 2 bed terrace a couple of streets over, that's currently advertised at £1200pm. If it were for sale i'd expect the sale price to be a solid £30,000 less than I paid for my property.

It's easy to see how people feel they're getting screwed over, unable to save a deposit, because they're shelling out so much more per month renting than they would be if they could buy.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Jun 2006
Posts
38,372
I'm not really going to get bogged down with the helping other people overseas issue, as it's a complete nonstarter. How far do you go with that? You do what you can, to suit your own moral code. If Foxeye was trying to show some moral highground then perhaps you'd have a point but he's not. He's simply saying that it's not fair that people are stuck in a circle of rent, unable to save to get out of it and are punished economically for that whereas he sees BTL landlords as having their cake and eat it and he doesn't think that such a demonstrable display of inequality should exist. By your argument, no one would do anything in fear of being a hypocrite. I'd rather be a hypocrite and do some good in my sphere of influence than not doing any good at all. I

Rent controls aren't in place. Landlords can charge what they want, and whilst there have been measures put in place to protect the tenant the landlord still holds the majority of the power. The landlord will say, as I do as I am one, that they are simply charging the market rate. I think we need to look at the issue of is that market rate fair? Regulations are put in place to regulate many a market, why not more so for rental and help those (who want to be helped!) who are stuck in the rent trap? Ultimately, as I am proving my self, landlords aren't going to do that. So we have two options. We either accept that tenants are punished for renting, by way of paying a lot more than they would via rent and not having that equity later in life and ask as a society are we happy to create this almost underclass? Or we regulate the rental market a lot harsher to the detriment of landlords but to the benefit of tenants. One group has to, unfortunately, lose out here. I think that all things considered, it ought to be the landlords.

The market rate is fair if its rented out.

Otherwise according to him 99% of properties are buy to let there is no shortage of places to rent elsewhere so you have competition it's not a monopoly. Because every single new build is being bought by investors according to those in here.

The market dictates the prices.

If you decided tomorrow to charge £2k per week. Do you think you would have a tenant?

It's fair the way it is. If you don't think an open market is fair then again it's not right to say we need to control this but do nothing about all the rest of the open markets especially when food, water, etc is concerned.

Council tax for instance. I could say that it's out of control and needs reducing.

How is it right that I have to pay tax on a monthly basis to live somewhere? It's like paying protection money to the Mafia.

What do I get for my council tax? My bins get lifted less and less to the point I've had to buy additional bins at my own expense. My street doesn't get gritted even if it has 4 foot of snow. Dangerous dogs are free to destroy property and attack people. Yet. Being asked to pay more and more for a worse service. But I haven't complained about it not until the above.

All his moaning about landlords will achieve nothing and he has no understanding of how it works either. He thinks rent is 100% profit to the landlord. They don't pay any tax or expenses.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Jun 2006
Posts
38,372
This is the bit that I think irritates renters the most.

I currently have a 3 bed semi, mortgage is just under £700pm (around 80% LTV IIRC at the moment), very comfortable to afford as an owner.

I just searched rightmove for rental properties near me and the closest I can find is a 2 bed terrace a couple of streets over, that's currently advertised at £1200pm. If it were for sale i'd expect the sale price to be a solid £30,000 less than I paid for my property.

It's easy to see how people feel they're getting screwed over, unable to save a deposit, because they're shelling out so much more per month renting than they would be if they could buy.

If anything your advocating we need more properties available to rent to bring prices down.

So we need more landlords.

Because that would fix the rent price issue.
 
Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2003
Posts
2,230
If anything your advocating we need more properties available to rent to bring prices down.

So we need more landlords.

Because that would fix the rent price issue.

not the case. The market at the moment is a racket. People are FORCED into renting because deposits to buy are too high. That means that people don’t have an option but to rent, and that is being taken advantage of. If the houses were for sale with a lower deposit required or much lower cost the people would buy putting pressure on the landlords to reduce rent as the other option would be that they buy.

Boris needs to hurry up with his gov’ backed 5% mortgages.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Dec 2004
Posts
15,764
'Or we regulate the rental market a lot harsher to the detriment of landlords but to the benefit of tenants' How?

Last few years has seen significant changes
- Tax changes to tax rent income rather than profit are in place
- Removal of 10% wear and tear allowance
- Removal of tenant fees, these costs now moved to landlord
- TDS , 3rd party to mediate and hold deposits

What else do you propose?

Simply changing tenancy rights similar to those in Germany where a tenant can stay as long as they like, as long as they pay their rent and hand it back in the same state they received it in. It doesn't have to be about money changing hands, just make life as a tenant a bit more secure.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Dec 2004
Posts
15,764
Boris needs to hurry up with his gov’ backed 5% mortgages.

That is not a solution. It's simply using taxpayer's money to artificially inflate property prices, which in turn drives up rents.

There needs to be a concerted government policy to stagnate property prices at or slightly below inflation. But as demonstrated by the ludicrous stamp duty holiday, the Conservatives will throw endless sums of our money into inflating the value of property portfolios.
 
Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2003
Posts
2,230
That is not a solution. It's simply using taxpayer's money to artificially inflate property prices, which in turn drives up rents.

There needs to be a concerted government policy to stagnate property prices at or slightly below inflation. But as demonstrated by the ludicrous stamp duty holiday, the Conservatives will throw endless sums of our money into inflating the value of property portfolios.

yep, and there seems to be plenty of people baring teeth to defend their right to exploit renters. Which is why they can’t / won’t.
 
Soldato
Joined
5 Apr 2009
Posts
24,796
If anything your advocating we need more properties available to rent to bring prices down.

So we need more landlords.

Because that would fix the rent price issue.

Not really, there's not a lack of rental property in all, just a lack of much local that's directly comparable to my property that I could draw an easy mortgage vs rental cost comparison with.

I could have made comparison with the huge swathe of small 2 bed flats that are up for £900pm but they're a completely different size and type of property, making the comparison largely pointless.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
This is the bit that I think irritates renters the most.

I currently have a 3 bed semi, mortgage is just under £700pm (around 80% LTV IIRC at the moment), very comfortable to afford as an owner.

I just searched rightmove for rental properties near me and the closest I can find is a 2 bed terrace a couple of streets over, that's currently advertised at £1200pm. If it were for sale i'd expect the sale price to be a solid £30,000 less than I paid for my property.

It's easy to see how people feel they're getting screwed over, unable to save a deposit, because they're shelling out so much more per month renting than they would be if they could buy.
Agree. But what’s the mortgage on your house without a deposit ? So we can compare equivalent
 
Associate
Joined
22 Dec 2005
Posts
1,196
Location
Cardiff
He is getting a lot of stick, but FoxEye is correct in this thread. The housing market is ridiculous.

I bought an awful small 2-up-2 down in Cardiff in 2017 and sold it, without doing anything, for a 26k “profit” 2 years later. I then bought another (much nicer) house for circa £320,000 and my re-mortgage estimate now has it valued at £375,000. This is a £53k increase in 12 months. There is no productivity associated with this gain. It is not sustainable capitalism in any useful form.

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone trying to get on the market now as even in Cardiff (a historically poorer city, although now very much now on the up) young professionals are being priced out, let alone those with less well paid jobs.

I wouldn’t ever buy a buy-to-let as I think it’s unfair. Hopefully, the government eventually closes off this avenue, although the horse has very much bolted and individuals hoovering up properties since the 2000s have made a killing. You can’t blame them, but it does leave a certain bad taste in one’s mouth
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Posts
19,798
Location
Glasgow
'Or we regulate the rental market a lot harsher to the detriment of landlords but to the benefit of tenants' How?

Last few years has seen significant changes
- Tax changes to tax rent income rather than profit are in place
- Removal of 10% wear and tear allowance
- Removal of tenant fees, these costs now moved to landlord
- TDS , 3rd party to mediate and hold deposits

What else do you propose?

None of those things that you have mentioned have brought rents down or helped renters save for a deposit. Everyone in this thread is saying the rent is higher than an equivalent mortgage.

I think there needs to be rent controls, controlled by local councils to ensure that the right mix of housing is available in that local area (so those who need to work in an area where there is now very high rents compared to their income are able to live there). We also need to build a lot more council housing and remove the right to buy. Social housing should, ideally, be a short-medium term thing to help those save for a deposit and move into their own home.

Agree. But what’s the mortgage on your house without a deposit ? So we can compare equivalent

It's not about not having a deposit, it's about not being able to save for a deposit whilst they are renting.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Sep 2005
Posts
5,996
Location
Essex
Maybe they should actually produce something to earn their money, instead of expecting an asset to do it for them.

Because that's the crux of what being a landlord is. You don't want to work, you want to sit back and (as much as possible) let your assets make money purely through the existence of said asset.

Any work done is a nuisance as it eats in to your profits.

They do provide something, they're responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of any goods or assets provided under the tenancy (e.g. the property itself, white goods, central heating etc.). Having been both a renter and a homeowner it's far less stressful as a renter when your boiler goes as it isn't your responsibility to sort out or fix.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Sep 2005
Posts
5,996
Location
Essex
In which case surely you can see that it is poisonous for most people? That this system in the way it functions requires more and more market share to pay its dividends to its investors. Anyway you can think to drive up house value and ruin this country for the young will benefit only the rich.

This is why there needs to be regulation that discourages this cycle whilst also enabling people weather unforeseen life changes.

What there needs to be is a decent supply of state run housing to ensure when people are in trouble they can be adequately housed. Anything beyond that is for the markets, subject to regulation to ensure the market provides habitable accommodation (e.g. tougher action on damp, mould, appropriate utility supplies etc.).
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
They do provide something, they're responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of any goods or assets provided under the tenancy (e.g. the property itself, white goods, central heating etc.). Having been both a renter and a homeowner it's far less stressful as a renter when your boiler goes as it isn't your responsibility to sort out or fix.
Indeed. Not sure how you get any cash out from an asset going up in value.

You still have to work to pay the bills and you don’t realise and Certainly no sitting back.

Foxeye have you ever rented a place ? If you contact landlords they help in my experience both sides. It’s the estate agents who are literally no ones friend. They will screw both the tenant and the landlord where they can.
 
Caporegime
Joined
21 Oct 2002
Posts
26,251
Location
Here
None of those things that you have mentioned have brought rents down or helped renters save for a deposit. Everyone in this thread is saying the rent is higher than an equivalent mortgage.

I think there needs to be rent controls, controlled by local councils to ensure that the right mix of housing is available in that local area (so those who need to work in an area where there is now very high rents compared to their income are able to live there). We also need to build a lot more council housing and remove the right to buy. Social housing should, ideally, be a short-medium term thing to help those save for a deposit and move into their own home.


It's not about not having a deposit, it's about not being able to save for a deposit whilst they are renting.

the things I have mentioned have only really taken full effect and only next year when people are doing 20/21 tax returns will they notice the impact and maybe thing about changing their BTL position.

should house owners have a mortgage cut so they can save up for a car too ?

we have an obsession in this country for home ownership. Other countries renting is more normal and hence has more government protection for tenants
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Oct 2006
Posts
12,456
Location
Sufferlandria
Agree. But what’s the mortgage on your house without a deposit ? So we can compare equivalent

That's not going to work as a comparison. If you've got a 100% mortgage, it may cost more than renting but after your first 2 year fix ends you'll be into at least the 95% band and prices will drop and then possibly the same again after the next 2 years.
If you're renting, the price is never going to come down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom