Can’t say I’m surprised. I will also be surprised if she ever leaves the States again and she certainly won’t be sent back to the UK. The US doesn’t send its citizens abroad for criminal trial.
Diplomatic Immunity
- Thread starter Dugganator
- Start date
Permabanned
I said in post #25 in this thread her husband was a spy and it comes as no surprise she was also into espionage. I am afraid protecting their agents from interrogation, publicity and potential kidnapping trumps an RTA, however sad the result.
Diplomatic Immunity is a totally necessary part of international relation. How else can anybody justify this-
Parking fines incurred by Diplomatic Missions and International Organisations in the UK - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It's an old reference and only for one year , but............
. Notice who is at the top of the list?
Parking fines incurred by Diplomatic Missions and International Organisations in the UK - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
It's an old reference and only for one year , but............
. Notice who is at the top of the list?
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 12,129
You can't seriously expect a member of the "Intelligence" services to read up everything about the country on which they are tasked with keeping an eye
Personally I feel that she shouldn’t have returned to the U.S., and that she should be compelled to return, but I know that the U.S. won’t do that to one of their citizens.
In addition, I don’t think that intelligence comes into it when it comes to accidentally moving to the “wrong” side of the road.
I spent 3 months in the U.S. in the early eighties, living in Brooklyn NYC, and I’m reasonably intelligent.
Many times I drove upstate to Binghamton NY, or to Wildwood N.J., or Philadelphia PA, and at least twice to my recall I drove out of a gas station, or diner parking lot and started to drift to the left, until my gf screamed, “No Jean, you dumb limey!”
In my European trucking days, I once drove an articulated truck off a ferry at Oostende or Zeebrugge, across Belgium, West Germany, East Germany, into Poland to Poznań.
After unloading on an industrial estate in Poznań, I had to pick up a load at a chemical plant some 40 km from Wrocław, I left the estate service road and moved straight over to the left.
It was only a van driving toward me flashing his headlights that alerted me, so it can happen to anyone.
I have no expectation that the US will allow her to be deported to the UK. But if we haven't already then we should issue an international arrest warrant. At least that way she won't be able to travel to many countries without fear of being arrested. It's a small thing but it's something.
Accidents happen and it may simply have been a momentary lapse of concentration. But it's the running away from any responsibility which is abhorrent.
Accidents happen and it may simply have been a momentary lapse of concentration. But it's the running away from any responsibility which is abhorrent.
The running away being abhorrent I can agree with, but, and forgive me here if I seem to be siding with her, I’m not, but did she actually run away of her own volition?
I’ve heard and read unsubstantiated stories that the State Department INSISTED that she return stateside, due to the alleged delicacy of her, or her husband’s job.
Man of Honour
Maybe she was ordered to. If she works for one of the intelligence services under cover of a mundane job, that intelligence service might well order her back home in order to reduce the risk of any details about what she knows or what she's done getting out. It's what I'd do in that situation if I was some sort of spymaster.
Fair points.
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 12,129
Even if she was ordered to do a runner, in what way does that mean that the UK Police should not issue an international arrest warrant?
Are you suggesting that the American Government should tell the UK Police to forget it and allow her to travel freely to wherever she is sent?
Permabanned
Why not? If she is a highly trained and valuable agent it may be to the long term benefit of the UK and our shared security to do just that, to forget it. You're sounding naive as to how security forces and secret agents operate, the costs involved in their training and how they are often favoured with a large amount of legal blind eye treatment on a reciprocal basis.
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2006
- Posts
- 12,129
So you are suggesting that "security forces and secret agents" should be free to kill innocent people around the world through incompetence and stupidity with impunity?
If she had run down and killed someone whilst out shopping (in the USA), should she also be given a free pass?
What if she just happened to be off her head on drink or drugs at the time she killed someone (in the USA); would that be OK?
Interesting . . . and you think I am naive - you should spend less time watching TV
Soldato
The naiveté is so heartening
In a perfect world I'm sure the "Rules are Black and White" version of reality you believe in would be a wonderful thing, but back in the real world of Greyness that the rest of us have to live in, the reason the UK won't kick out the US Military from all it's bases in the UK over the actions of a single US citizen isn't because the UK is "weak". Instead it's the product of an extremely simple "cost vs value" calculation i.e. what would we lose vs what would we gain from kicking out the US military and losing all US support (financial, political, military etc) just so that we can jail someone for <5 years for death by careless driving. To hazard a guess I'd say they might even get a suspended sentence so they'd never even see the inside of a UK jail, making everything we'd lose seem even more of a waste.
Whilst that sounds absolutely horrible, judging the worth of a life against the benefits of political union, it's the reality of the situation.
yea what about the value vs cost for america? surely those 6-13 bases are worth more than one stupid woman who can't drive on the correct side of the road.
russia would probably give their left ass cheek for some bases in our country, EU would bend over backwards if we started to cosy up with russia
there was never a special relationship with the states, we just get used and abused
russia would probably give their left ass cheek for some bases in our country, EU would bend over backwards if we started to cosy up with russia
there was never a special relationship with the states, we just get used and abused
Well yeah, the UK is weak when compared with the US. Not weak minded, just politically and economically weaker. That's why strategically, leaving the EU is one of the worst decisions in the history of the UK, if not THE worst. We'll now get used and abused by a whole new set of "allies" who we were beforehand, the stronger partner.
Caporegime
There has to be some level of common sense applied surely.
The likelihood is, that she's killed someone and has managed to escape all accountability.
That goes far and beyond the line I draw in the sand and she should be punished the same as any other US citizen in the UK would for the same crime.
The likelihood is, that she's killed someone and has managed to escape all accountability.
That goes far and beyond the line I draw in the sand and she should be punished the same as any other US citizen in the UK would for the same crime.
There is actually, we share a lot more on intelligence and our militaries have a higher degree of cooperation compared to most of the other allies the US has. This is important since the US has the largest military and highest defence budget in the world, by far. The UK and US are also the backbone of NATO, which is the strongest military alliance that has ever existed. The US needs the UK because we have their back on global issues, they have our back because countries like China or Russia that are bigger than us know they can't push us around in the same way that they might be able to if we didn't have the worlds largest super power as our best mate.
Soldato
Causing death by dangerous driving carries a mandatory minimum one year jail term.
Unless there are additional details I've missed/not been released unlikely she'd get a conviction for causing death by dangerous driving? careless driving maybe.
Though I may be wrong on that.