Alder Lake-S leaks

[kitfit1]

For those that have been in this game for a while like me, various PC components have had huge peaks and troughs in supply and demand (hence price), but with the perfect storm we have at the moment no-one knows what the new 'normal' will look like.

Your right, no one knows what the new "normal" will look like. Any of us can only base what that may be on past actions by any manufacturer. Intel in particular though has a very founded and predictable outcome where price is concerned.....................they will NEVER EVER launch cheap if the opportunity presents itself to launch expensive. It's inbuilt into the Intel dna.

 

[rustyk21]

Your right, no one knows what the new "normal" will look like. Any of us can only base what that may be on past actions by any manufacturer. Intel in particular though has a very founded and predictable outcome where price is concerned.....................they will NEVER EVER launch cheap if the opportunity presents itself to launch expensive. It's inbuilt into the Intel dna.

Well, I sort of agree, but to be fair you could swap "A N OTHER PLC" for "INTEL" any day of the week, I still don't get why people actually have any emotional attachment to brands.
They are all companies, looking to maximise profit. It doesn't mean that they can charge what they want, they will just charge what people will pay.

 

[smilingcrow]

More importantly, with the way things are at the moment, I wonder where this will be positioned price-wise.
For those that have been in this game for a while like me, various PC components have had huge peaks and troughs in supply and demand (hence price), but with the perfect storm we have at the moment no-one knows what the new 'normal' will look like.

RAM and SSDs are currently cheap but GPUs are best not talked about as many here may shed a tear.
With CPUs there has also been an upward pressure on pricing; look at Zen 3 for the latest sign of that.
It may well come down to the usual supply and demand.
So if Zen 3 remains as it currently is with supply and pricing then Intel have some wiggle room.
But once Zen 3 supply increases and if they also release non X chips then that has to put pressure on Intel's pricing.
Intel have been known to slash prices though; was it the Q6600!
So they could aim for volume over price.
But back to supply, so how many can they make?

 

[tommoT.Striker]

This thread needs more rumours:

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-r...o-feature-10nm-enhanced-superfin-architecture

Latest news on the grapevine is Alder Lake will be announced in September and unleashed in December. I think for pragmatists this sounds more realistic than the 6 months after Rocket Lake rumours that some were hoping for. 31st December looking good! 20% ipc increase over tiger lake on the big cores!

 

[Grim5]

Massive leak from Intel from someone taking photos at an internal presentation

Alder Lake will enter mass production in 5 months from now. Built on 10nm superfin, +20% IPC over Rocket lake, up to 38mb cache, up to 16 cores(8 big 8 little), 125w tdp on k models, 65w on non K models and 35w on T models, supports both ddr4 and DDR5,supports pcie4, up to 2x multithreaded performance over Rocket lake, hardware scheduler onboard processing, uses z690 chipset


In addition to all of this, Alder Lake will also be used for HEDT using a W680 chipset. HEDT models are up to 38 cores with 4.0ghz frequency


https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-la...ion-cpus-leaked-up-to-16-cores-w680-platform/

 

[LePhuronn]

that photo just shows more embarrassment for Intel.

 

[g67575]

If its not going into mass production until 2021 Q4, does that mean they won't be available to buy until 2022 Q1?

 

[KompuKare]

If its not going into mass production until 2021 Q4, does that mean they won't be available to buy until 2022 Q1?

Guess it depends on how many steps Intel's 10nm has.
90 days is possible as searching for tsmc "cycle time" get (old) hits like this:

So, using today's lithographic techniques, the cycle times are increasing from roughly 40 days at 28nm, to 60 days at 14nm/10nm, to 80 to 85 days at 7nm. 5nm may extend to 100 days using today's techniques, without extreme ultraviolet (EUV) lithography.16 Feb 2017

And they'll have to stockpile some too.

 

[KompuKare]

Alder Lake will enter mass production in 5 months from now. Built on 10nm superfin, +20% IPC over Rocket lake, up to 38mb cache, up to 16 cores(8 big 8 little), 125w tdp on k models, 65w on non K models and 35w on T models, supports both ddr4 and DDR5,supports pcie4, up to 2x multithreaded performance over Rocket lake, hardware scheduler onboard processing, uses z690 chipset

Well, there is their solution to getting Microsoft to write them a new kernel scheduler.
Hopefully they have firmware for that scheduler for upgrades as they work out any kinks.

 

[Lomax]

Massive leak from Intel from someone taking photos at an internal presentation

Alder Lake will enter mass production in 5 months from now. Built on 10nm superfin, +20% IPC over Rocket lake, up to 38mb cache, up to 16 cores(8 big 8 little), 125w tdp on k models, 65w on non K models and 35w on T models, supports both ddr4 and DDR5,supports pcie4, up to 2x multithreaded performance over Rocket lake, hardware scheduler onboard processing, uses z690 chipset


In addition to all of this, Alder Lake will also be used for HEDT using a W680 chipset. HEDT models are up to 38 cores with 4.0ghz frequency


https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-la...ion-cpus-leaked-up-to-16-cores-w680-platform/

I'm really not a fan of the big.little concept and expect for power users the little cores will just be wasted silicon, worse still the majority of timing delays are routing and they may end up with a worse routing solution to the high performance cores for the cache. For my work, while multiple processors do get taken use of I find the majority of processing inevitably gets done n a single core. I'd rather see more cache or cores, the power saving won't add up to much for me, I'd rather not rely too on Microsoft not messing up the scheduling here too.

This news is promising that Intel will effectively equal AMD in 2022. They look likely to lag 10%, if so Zen4 would then be released with no great rush in 2022 since AMD are effectively here just competing wth themselves. I've just brought a 5950x so I'm either a little biased and/or putting my money where my mouth is.

 

[tommoT.Striker]

Massive leak from Intel from someone taking photos at an internal presentation

Alder Lake will enter mass production in 5 months from now. Built on 10nm superfin, +20% IPC over Rocket lake, up to 38mb cache, up to 16 cores(8 big 8 little), 125w tdp on k models, 65w on non K models and 35w on T models, supports both ddr4 and DDR5,supports pcie4, up to 2x multithreaded performance over Rocket lake, hardware scheduler onboard processing, uses z690 chipset


In addition to all of this, Alder Lake will also be used for HEDT using a W680 chipset. HEDT models are up to 38 cores with 4.0ghz frequency


https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-la...ion-cpus-leaked-up-to-16-cores-w680-platform/

Just to be clear here, 38 cores are for a Ice Lake Workstation platform, Alder Lake 8+8 cores.

 

[Destination]

...damn that is terrible news!

There are two configurations listed which include 8+8 and 6+8. The 8+8 SKUs which feature 8 Golden Cove cores and 8 Gracemont cores are listed for production around the 35th week of 2021 while the 6+0 SKU will comprise of just 6 Golden Cove cores and no Gracemont cores will be mass-produced in the 44th week of 2021.

so.... ouch, 8+8 is workstation! same as the main CPU line, that sounds terrible.

 

[humbug]

So what was the bloody point in Rocket Lake? are we still recommending them? Why?

 

[Destination]

Well this suggest alderlake workstations will be atrocious as well!
They'll have nothing over the base generic CPU.
I doubt they are in as much trouble as this suggests, it's likely semi-leaks and mostly wrong.

 

[humbug]

Intel are once again claiming all sorts of performance improvements, if they don't actually materialise into much that's tangible will they lose what credibility they have?

I'm sorry but:

Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge claim: +15% actual +5%
Ivy Bridge to Haswell claim: +15%, actual +5%
Haswell to Kaby Lake claim: +15%, actual +15% (Hurray)
Kaby Lake to Sky Lake claim +5%, actual +5% (Well done)

Comet Lake to Rocket Lake claim +19%, actual +8% (in some cases) mostly 0%.

Compare that with AMD.

Excavator to Zen 1 claim: 40%, actual +52%
Zen 1 to Zen + claim: 10%, actual +10%
Zen 1 to Zen 2 claim: +20%, actual +20% to +30%
Zen 2 to Zen 3 claim: +20%, actual +20% to +50%


Rocket Lake to Alder Lake claim: +20%. So lets see.

 

[LePhuronn]

To be fair, that slide does show Alder Lake workstation as the "entry level" workstation. Ice Lake workstation is in the middle with 36 cores and then there's Sapphire Rapids at the very top coming in 2022. But it is still a bit embarrassing that new products are being pushed out that are still hopelessly inferior to the competition.

But then, Intel doesn't care, they never have. This is just to keep the foundries churning and keep some kind of product on the shelves so investors and shareholders think something is happening and they don't freak out. Plus, between enterprise users who are literally locked into Intel for numerous reasons and idiot fanboys like our mate Dave and his various alt accounts, something new from Intel will always sell, even if it's rubbish.

That was the point in Rocket Lake, btw @humbug .

 

[humbug]

To be fair, that slide does show Alder Lake workstation as the "entry level" workstation. Ice Lake workstation is in the middle with 36 cores and then there's Sapphire Rapids at the very top coming in 2022. But it is still a bit embarrassing that new products are being pushed out that are still hopelessly inferior to the competition.

But then, Intel doesn't care, they never have. This is just to keep the foundries churning and keep some kind of product on the shelves so investors and shareholders think something is happening and they don't freak out. Plus, between enterprise users who are literally locked into Intel for numerous reasons and idiot fanboys like our mate Dave and his various alt accounts, something new from Intel will always sell, even if it's rubbish.

That was the point in Rocket Lake, btw @humbug .

Rocket Lake was to appease restless investors, but are they blind? Do they just looks at Intel's slides and take that as fact or do they actually do any of their own research? Is this why Intel's marketing slides are almost always a lie.

 

[LePhuronn]

Rocket Lake to Alder Lake claim: +20%. So lets see.

I'll drop a tenner in saying this one will come to pass.

You can see that the Willow Cove arch does carry improvements over Skylake simply by virtue of Cypress Cove's IPC gains over Skylake on desktop and Tiger Lake on mobile. The fact that the 14nm backport for Cypress Cove killed off everything other improvement is arguably irrelevant. Plus, what could proper Willow Cove (i.e. actually the 10nm design in 10nm) have done on desktop? Golden Cove is supposedly a big jump past Willow Cove, and that is 10nm on desktop.

So given the process node alone should net improvements on desktop, the newer architecture has improvements and in the real world the net gains from Rocket were 0%, I'd say it was pretty easy to get a hefty uplift with Alder Lake.

 

[LePhuronn]

Rocket Lake was to appease restless investors, but are they blind? Do they just looks at Intel's slides and take that as fact or do they actually do any of their own research? Is this why Intel's marketing slides are almost always a lie.

Yes, yes, no, yes.

 

[humbug]

Yes, yes, no, yes.

Well, it would have to be.,...