Advice... Neighbors Extension Proposal (Victorian Terrace)

[mattx2]

Thanks. I assume the planning process is entirely separate to the party wall decision?

Would I flag issues about building 'on' the boundary now or is it fruitless?

The notice I have received is planning.

Party wall is separate and once planning permission is granted all you can really do is delay the build by not agreeing to a party wall agreement

What you should agree to do is hire a separate surveyer and have them go over the issues raised.

Also take lots of photos from your side before works start so if any cracks or damage appear your side you have evidence

Also is this just a single level extension?

I'm taking a rough guess here but a single level extension would add about 15sq if that. Seems insane as I'm guessing the build cost is going to be 30-40k

 

[dlockers]

<snip> all a bit too specific

 

[200sols]

I am not really happy to lose my sensible pathway to my garden - if they build on the boundary I am assuming that means I get to have half a brick/full brick on my land?

It amazes me somebody else could be allowed to build on your property. Is that really the case?

 

[dlockers]

It amazes me somebody else could be allowed to build on your property. Is that really the case?

I guess the argument is it's an extension of the current dividing wall so we'd get a brick each? I'm hoping not too, though.

 

[mattx2]

Thanks, helpful.

Is planning where I challenge them building on the boundary? I am not really happy to lose my sensible pathway to my garden - if they build on the boundary I am assuming that means I get to have half a brick/full brick on my land?

Agreed regarding cost. The whole planning application is hysterical. States things like creating a more modern way of living with light flooding through, and how inkeeping with the conservation area it is. Concludes with anthracite bi fold doors and a velux window

Edit: It is Herts as well, so double the estimate

Planning is where you challenge them, they will apply to the council and the council will send a letter round to the adjoining houses to the plot and they will ask for any objections in that letter.

Are they definitely building on the boundary line or just coming right up to it?

I assume you have a fence or wall there now that your jointly responsible for, does this building replace the wall?

In terms of arguing against it you would have to look at the councils planning portal to see what they assess on some councils are a little different but in general terms you can argue for loss of light (is the extension higher than current wall? and is it pitched or flat roof?), the other one is drainage how are they ensuring the roof is still draining onto their property if they build up to the wall where would the guttering go?

I don't think you have much luck arguing against innkeeping with the area since its a small rear extension, but if you have time most councils have planning portals that show previous decisions if you have time to scan through this to see what's been granted in the past or maybe the previous planning application for the house to find out why they didn't go all the way out. Previous decisions tend to be upheld to avoid setting precedent's

 

[dlockers]

<snip> all a bit too specific

 

[DB_SamX]

Regarding the party wall notice:

This link suggests reminding them not to forget applying for PWA incase they are dumb or are not being advised by a competent architect.
https://www.peterbarry.co.uk/blog/what-to-do-when-your-neighbour-ignores-the-party-wall-act/

This link is about refusing the initial agreement, should they propose it.
https://www.wlbuildingsurveyors.co.uk/2019/08/can-a-party-wall-agreement-be-refused/

It's all gotta be reasonable though. They do have a right to an extension, as long as it doesn't make you worse off, which evidently you feel you will be, but need to prove.

 

[jpaul]

I'd say light is already compromised 40% because of existing extension. This was presumably why the side returns were left in place. Now they are arguing a 4% impact to light but that is from a baseline of already 40% compromised through previous build activity.

wow - that's very specific - so they have done some kind of 3d modelling analysis that they should be able to present to you ? ... or, the new wall is a few percent higher than the fence.

 

[mattx2]

Yeah that is the letter I have. Planning permission has been requested. I'm the only house that would have reason to object.

The plans indicate building on the boundary. Right now there is a single panel/35mm thick fence. The wall would replace the fence building precisely off of the boundary wall.

You should probably get a party wall surveyor involved to make sure what they are doing is all above board. My understanding (and I'm really not an expert just dealt with party wall agreements a couple of times) if its your wall/fence the other side can't just knock it down and replace without your permission. They should be building right up to it not replacing it.

Might be an idea to double check legal ownership if you don't have the docs they should be available from the land registry

Also in terms of benefit to you or future owners if they are going to build a wall there see if you can make sure its built to allow any future extension from your side to use it as a party wall. Would make it slightly cheaper on your end to do the same thing they have

 

[Semple]

The above is a good point, if you legally own the fence, then they would have to build upto the fence, whereas I imagine their drawings will take account of the fence to be replaced with the external wall of the extension. They might think that you won't be concerned about replacing your fence with a wall - no more maintenance etc. But could allow you to keep an extra inch or two.

 

[LACKERKNACKER]

dLockers, good luck with this - The best advice I can give is to keep talking with your neighbour, I’ve been on both sides of the fence with these projects, being the extender and the neighbour- it’s really difficult when both hold the belief that they are right.
Personally I be surprised if planning is not approved, which then leaves how it’s built and where. The party wall act will apply, and what applications made will make a difference to how it’s built, and to a dergree how difficult it will be. The PWA is an enabling act, it will not stop work taking place, but it will give the neighbour some legal rights to access your property to build, some rights to straggle the Lance of juncture for footings depending on what application is made. We’ve experienced this twice, whilst as the extender we found it a pain and costly (£2k) to go though, it gave us some access rights to build and ensured any future claims for damage were defendable , when we were the neighbour, it gave us assurance from and independent source that the work being done would cause no damage , the surveyor has the right to make an order to add additional conditions on construction.
My advice would be to speak to neighbour and ask about the PWA, if they don’t want to play ball contact one yourself and instruct them to act on your behalf ,your neighbour will have to pay for this
Clearly I’m no expert and some of the above may not be 100% but that’s our experience.

 

[dlockers]

<snip> all a bit too specific

 

[dlockers]

<snip> all a bit too specific

 

[dlockers]

<snip> all a bit too specific

 

[LACKERKNACKER]

Thanks. At what point would I engage a PW Surveyor? Is that post planning?

When I went through conveyancing I was told I own the left fence. It wasn't exactly a legally binding document though, it was just the previous owners view as to who maintains what. I have replaced at my expense the entire garden length over the last summer.



That would be a game changer in itself. Will add it to my note.

What point did you engage the party wall surveyor? Was it post planning or during?

When building we slipped up, our architect made no reference to PWA being an issue, in fact all he suggested was to set the extension wall back by a brick so as not to sit on boundary. our neighbour objected at planning, this was not upheld. They then refused access to build from their side, which of course they can, they also made also sorta of claims that we would damaged their property , this the. Prompted us to research The PWA.
It needs to be in place before the build starts, depending on what part of the act some work could start but not work in scope of the act.
When we were the neighbour, we had gone through our PWA works, we asked the neighbour if they were going to instruct a PWA surveyor, which they did, the surveyor acted for both of us and ensured both our interests were looked after.

 

[Semple]

IANAL but i would have thought if the fence ownership is yours rather than shared, then they can't assume that they can replace it with a wall of their choosing.

The proposed drawings have a measurement of 765mm between wall and boundary - can you sneak out with a tape measure and find out exactly where the 765mm measurement ends, because if it's bang in the middle of the fencing then they've clearly got plans to remove it and build their external wall in place.

It's amazing actually why they're bothering, by the time you've taken 300mm off for external brick, internal block, insulation and plastering, then they're left with a little over 45cms extra width.

If they have taken into account replacing your fence with an external wall, then it could actually be a little under 40cm extra width.

 

[jpaul]

Could be interesting to get a piece of board, & attach it to the fence to simulate any lost light you would have.

What kind of drains are they building near/over?

yes I think that's an interesting question if the communal sewer runs parallel across the back of the original house backs,
would their extension mean yours and their other neighbours properties have to be accessed to unblock their property.

 

[koolpc]

Thousands of properties are extended like the proposed. I cant see you getting anywhere myself.

 

[mickyflinn]

You need to check your deeds to see who owns the wall or if its a party wall.

https://www.axani.co.uk/articles/property/which-fence-belongs-to-my-property/

 

[mattx2]

Thanks. At what point would I engage a PW Surveyor? Is that post planning?

IIRC when I did it last time we weren't in a rush so waited until planning permision was granted incase there were any significant re-designs needed

Also the PWA agreement is where you can stipulate reasonable terms like access to your side and timings, no weekend work, no power tools before 9am etc