When are you going fully electric?

jpaul · 18 Feb 2021 at 21:55

That German forum has lots of info on id3 & pre-heating etc https://www.goingelectric.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=393&t=61111&start=250
VW ID.3 - First problems after delivery solved! Stand air conditioning Single zone air conditioning without cables!
"My tip: If you cannot precondition your single-zone air conditioning system with your single-zone climate control system despite the software 0783, you should ask your dealer for an update"
- prepare a pre-delivery check sheetfor dealer ?

jpaul · 19 Feb 2021 at 22:35

hadn't realised ford also announced a german ev factory for their re-utilization of the id3(meb) drivetrain this should help scale up and fix any production/sw problems,
an implant in (fortress) eu should give some market advantage over hyundai/nissan/korean/chinese brands too.

if they are putting some of their focus/fiesta handling expertise into it too

ok -> https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/...ild-new-mini-mustang-mach-e-electric-car-2023

b0rn2sk8 · 19 Feb 2021 at 23:13

Does anyone think ford funnelling money to VW to use their platform will end up being a bad move for the industry? Particularly in Europe.

VW has a pretty big grip on the market in Europe and other automakers funnelling more money to them just seems like a bad idea, especially when Ford has seemly given up on passenger cars in its home market which are still pretty popular in Europe.

pugheaven · 20 Feb 2021 at 01:14

Never

WJA96 · 20 Feb 2021 at 04:14

jpaul said:
hadn't realised ford also announced a german ev factory for their re-utilization of the id3(meb) drivetrain this should help scale up and fix any production/sw problems,
an implant in (fortress) eu should give some market advantage over hyundai/nissan/korean/chinese brands too.

if they are putting some of their focus/fiesta handling expertise into it too

ok -> https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/...ild-new-mini-mustang-mach-e-electric-car-2023

Chinese brands maybe but all those other countries already have factories in the EU (Nissan are Renault, Kia/Hyundai have a massive factory in Slovakia).

WJA96 · 20 Feb 2021 at 04:19

b0rn2sk8 said:
Does anyone think ford funnelling money to VW to use their platform will end up being a bad move for the industry? Particularly in Europe.

VW has a pretty big grip on the market in Europe and other automakers funnelling more money to them just seems like a bad idea, especially when Ford has seemly given up on passenger cars in its home market which are still pretty popular in Europe.

Given how incestuous the car industry is I don’t think it’ll make a blind bit of difference.

Ford and VAG have worked together for years on people carriers. BMW and Peugeot have some engines in common. BMW and Toyota have a joint car programme for the Supra/Z4. Fiat and Mazda have the MX-5 etc. it just goes on and on.

If the car that comes out of the Ford/iD3 tie-in is anything like the Galaxy/Sharan/Alhambra then it’ll be very like the iD3 it’s based on.

Joe T · 20 Feb 2021 at 08:05

b0rn2sk8 said:
Does anyone think ford funnelling money to VW to use their platform will end up being a bad move for the industry? Particularly in Europe.

VW has a pretty big grip on the market in Europe and other automakers funnelling more money to them just seems like a bad idea, especially when Ford has seemly given up on passenger cars in its home market which are still pretty popular in Europe.

In the UK we consider Ford a big player (Number 1, c. 11% market share), but across all of Europe (inc UK) they are closer to 5%. They dont have the volume and scale to do this stuff by themselves unfortunately.

jpaul · 20 Feb 2021 at 10:37

yes UK folks have a soft spot for Ford (who hasn't had one in their family), that can be rejuvinated with a good ev offering - but they seem to talking about fiesta(corsa/208) size and not focus, so far, even though id3 is focus size - fords many dealerships need to be filled with something.
They are trading on the legacy, maybe misconception that they are british made though, which competitors would want to undermine.

Battery management and the drivetrains, are a sufficiently new market that combining R&D/manufacture with several companies can have more $$ advantages than legacy ICE,
enabling them to catchup (or have they achieved that already) with Tesla.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Feb 2021 at 11:29

Don’t forget Ford also has just launched the Mach E. this smaller Ford will minimise the investment exposure for Ford and helped VW with their huge costs of MEB. This is the typical logic of platform sharing.

Journey · 21 Feb 2021 at 01:15

Seems that VW's ID.3 sales were not all that they appeared to be at the end of last year. Apparently over 25% of cars registered were registered to VW/VW dealers in Europe on average and over 35% in Germany, over 13.5k in total across all countries.

I guess this is why they were giving such massive discounts on brand new cars, to get rid of them as quickly as possible. If you take away the 'fake' sales Tesla obliterated then in sales numbers, since they only count cars delivered to the actual end customer.

It obviously was done to mitigate against the EU emissions fines, but they were making out like they had a staggering start when in reality it wasn't.

OllyM · 21 Feb 2021 at 02:56

VW were supposed to start delivering the RWD ID.4 to the US at the end of 2020 but supposedly diverted production to the EU because of the emissions fines and pushed back the launch to March 2021.

I ordered an AWD on launch day and originally they promised early 2021 delivery but my local dealer now thinks Q3 2021 is more likely :rolleyes:

WJA96 · 21 Feb 2021 at 07:38

Journey said:
Seems that VW's ID.3 sales were not all that they appeared to be at the end of last year. Apparently over 25% of cars registered were registered to VW/VW dealers in Europe on average and over 35% in Germany, over 13.5k in total across all countries.

I guess this is why they were giving such massive discounts on brand new cars, to get rid of them as quickly as possible. If you take away the 'fake' sales Tesla obliterated then in sales numbers, since they only count cars delivered to the actual end customer.

It obviously was done to mitigate against the EU emissions fines, but they were making out like they had a staggering start when in reality it wasn't.

OMG - VAG revealed to be less than completely honest. Again. Who’d have thought it?

WJA96 · 21 Feb 2021 at 07:39

OllyM said:
VW were supposed to start delivering the RWD ID.4 to the US at the end of 2020 but supposedly diverted production to the EU because of the emissions fines and pushed back the launch to March 2021.

I ordered an AWD on launch day and originally they promised early 2021 delivery but my local dealer now thinks Q3 2021 is more likely

I think that could be a good thing because based on the iD3, these cars are not quite customer-ready.

Journey · 21 Feb 2021 at 07:53

WJA96 said:
OMG - VAG revealed to be less than completely honest. Again. Who’d have thought it?

VAG technically weren't being dishonest, just the way that the industry collected the data, and then reported it made it look much better in sales numbers. However they (VAG) made no attempt to clarify this, but why would they since they don't do it for any other vehicle.

jpaul · 21 Feb 2021 at 08:09

(defending vag) they had got rid of their software development manager / re-organized(using some e-tron staff) / hired ... and learned id3 hardware lessons on inadvertently draining the battery, so id4 may escape, but,
maybe they will need to throw in the heat pump, or is that already std for id4, like Y.

Jonnycoupe · 21 Feb 2021 at 09:36

Shortage of tin foil chaps, get those hats on fast.

Journey · 21 Feb 2021 at 09:40

Jonnycoupe said:
Shortage of tin foil chaps, get those hats on fast.

Wrong thread? :confused:

SDK^ · 21 Feb 2021 at 09:41

jpaul said:
maybe they will need to throw in the heat pump, or is that already std for id4, like Y.

The heat pump on all VW EV’s is a £1,250 option

WJA96 · 21 Feb 2021 at 09:43

jpaul said:
(defending vag) they had got rid of their software development manager / re-organized(using some e-tron staff) / hired ... and learned id3 hardware lessons on inadvertently draining the battery, so id4 may escape, but,
maybe they will need to throw in the heat pump, or is that already std for id4, like Y.

It's not just VAG though, or even electric cars. I think you'd have to be really brave to take on one of the new Ioniq 5's when they launch. Or a Mach E, or any of the first round of any car launch. They've all had issues.

Psycho Ned · 21 Feb 2021 at 11:08

Hyundai/Kia do have 5/6 years of making really decent EVs in their locker though. But this is a new all EV only platform granted.