The feeling that we've peaked with less to look forward too

[VincentHanna]

Slow internet, No VOIP phones, limited video calling and no streaming services, Yeah it would have been a nightmare

 

[BowdonUK]

I understand how OP feels. I think in the 80s and 90s (and early 00s) there was a cultural revolution going on and everyone felt part of it. I think the speed in which technology advances as slowed down a lot. It feels like there aren't many new ideas coming out. That society as stagnated.

One thing I never thought I'd miss is boredom! I remember sitting in the class at school, or at home, bored with nothing to do. I'd have to make an effort to look around for something to fill the time. This doesn't happen these days as there is always something trying to get my attention, usually a bunch of nonsense.

In another thread about dreams the OP talks about imagination. From the conversations I've had most don't have much of an imagination these days. They don't do much that requires them to think. Who remembers the childrens programme Button Moon? Were we had to imagine kitchen sink items were characters flying to space.... with no drugs involved! But today it appears that people arent that imaginative, or at least the creativeness is being surpressed. Then we wonder why the state of gaming and the music industry is as it is today, mostly carbon copies of previous games/movies/songs.

I think we'll get back around to the golden era. People say history repeats. Many of the older generation think the 1950s were good. So the 50s to the 80s is 30 years. If we count from 2000 then maybe 2030 will be in the next peak?

 

[stockhausen]

. . .
- Clubbing - died out which is pretty sad.
- Mobile phones - drip fed gradual "changes" and very small improvements.
- Gaming - the actual game content, feeling and emotion has not felt as special over the last decade.
- Roads and train infrastructure - our roads are in poor condition and our train infra is decades behind. It seems unrealistic to ever foresee it being good. Our "peak" could be here, which is unfortunately more "the best we can do".
- Fast car/bike ownership - again our roads are poor and cameras everywhere. High costs to run and stricter emissions and a push to elec.
- TVs - Since 1080p flat screens we haven't gone very far. Even top end TVs have uniformity issues.
- Football - too many reasons to list, it's just not as enjoyable as 90s/00s
- MotoGP and F1 - I find myself skipping through highlights and don't really look forward to new seasons.
- Pubs - Of the ones that survive, they tend to be refurbished with a restaurant bias losing all character.
. . .

It sounds as if you are very dependent on technology and others to keep you entertained. This may have been exacerbated by Covid and the lockdown but you should try to find ways to entertain yourself:

• learn to play a musical instrument - it may be hard to pick up a second hand guitar at the moment
• learn a foreign language - French and/or Spanish shouldn't be out of your reach while locked down
• join a Sunday football club (see above)
  
• join a local cycle club and get ready for long distance rides when lockdown ends

How anyone can suggest that there is nothing to watch on TV is a mystery to me.
As to Pubs morphing into restaurants - try chatting to a pub landlord about viability and profitability.

 

[dlockers]

I understand how OP feels. I think in the 80s and 90s (and early 00s) there was a cultural revolution going on and everyone felt part of it. I think the speed in which technology advances as slowed down a lot. It feels like there aren't many new ideas coming out. That society as stagnated.

One thing I never thought I'd miss is boredom! I remember sitting in the class at school, or at home, bored with nothing to do. I'd have to make an effort to look around for something to fill the time. This doesn't happen these days as there is always something trying to get my attention, usually a bunch of nonsense.

In another thread about dreams the OP talks about imagination. From the conversations I've had most don't have much of an imagination these days. They don't do much that requires them to think. Who remembers the childrens programme Button Moon? Were we had to imagine kitchen sink items were characters flying to space.... with no drugs involved! But today it appears that people arent that imaginative, or at least the creativeness is being surpressed. Then we wonder why the state of gaming and the music industry is as it is today, mostly carbon copies of previous games/movies/songs.

I think we'll get back around to the golden era. People say history repeats. Many of the older generation think the 1950s were good. So the 50s to the 80s is 30 years. If we count from 2000 then maybe 2030 will be in the next peak?

There is a cultural revolution going on continuously. You just aren't part of it because your time to shape and challenge the world has been and gone.

 

[robgmun]

I understand how OP feels. I think in the 80s and 90s (and early 00s) there was a cultural revolution going on and everyone felt part of it. I think the speed in which technology advances as slowed down a lot. It feels like there aren't many new ideas coming out. That society as stagnated.

yeah i'd say between the mid-80's to about 2010 there was a massive growth in technology that it was crazy hard to keep up with it all. It's slowed down a lot in the last 10 years

 

[Efour]

That is so ridiculously untrue and can only be the words of someone who has never been involved in a music movement. How many people were going to Fabric Drum and Bass nights or Gatecrasher in 1998 primarily to hook up? The minority...

You're talking like 1% of people if that. Of course there are exceptions to generalisations. As you pointed out.

 

[Hades]

This point you keep making across several threads is just laughable, it really is. How could the UK be on decline since WW1? In what measure? Literally everything has got better.

I suggest you guys read this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Abundance-Future-Better-Than-Think/dp/1451695764

At the very least to get another perspective.

UK influence has declined, the empire is gone etc. Just about everything else has improved though, living standards, quality of life are all so much better than the 'good old days'.

A few examples off the top of my head.

Sure we have nice gadgets now to make our lives more pleasant. But the loss of the empire and the cost of trying to keep that empire (which is a big reason we fought WW1 and WW2) has put the nation in significant debt. Our national debt is huge now (WW1 debt paid but we've been in debt ever since - and it's growing). A very significant amount of tax paid by all of us goes to service that debt. There is less money available to improve the country because of the debt we have to pay. I'm not saying the empire was a good thing but simply highlighting the impact.

Back around the beginning of the 20th century we only needed one income for the average person to live. Now many households need both parents working to manage to pay the rent/mortgage. That has an affect on the whole family as parents are stressed and have to farm out childcare.

There is a far higher percentage of single parent families, which in my opinion is a significant cause of the youth gangs. London is getting a bit... stabby.

The manufacturing industry has been decimated by globalisation. Everything we buy from abroad is money flowing out of our country, further eroding our wealth. Want that cheap Chinese good? Well there is a real cost of buying cheap. It makes you poorer.

The unity of the UK is at a real low point with a prospect of it breaking up in my lifetime.

There are restrictions everywhere on where you can drive, what you can drive and even where you can walk. This might be a small thing but it demonstrates the gradual loss of freedoms we have. When I was a child I went to see Stonehenge. I don't just mean see it but climb on it. Good luck getting close to it now. Again just one example of the loss of freedom. I'm sure people will argue it's a good thing that we can't climb on it but it's a good example of a personal loss of freedom.

Cheap travel is gone for good. Even when the current restrictions are lifted it will never return to how it was. Again there is an argument to say that's a good thing. I'm not denying it. But the good times are over.

Need a job as an inexperienced school/uni leaver? Sure, just apply for a sales assistant in a shop. Oh wait the high street is in terminal decline.

Almost everything we do is for short term benefit now. We used to be a real leader in so many sectors. But for short term cost reduction we have allowed those skills to fall away. Genuine apprenticeships have disappeared. Everyone is expected to get into debt at university instead. Most of our industry is owned by foreign companies. Need a nuclear reactor (which we used to be a pioneering country in)? We need France or China to help us. Build better motorways? Nope, let's repurpose the hard shoulder. Build up a strong IT industry for the future? Nope, let's hire people from abroad a let our previous lead disappear. Even though the 60's were a tough time we still had a space programme in the form of Black Arrow. Could you imagine us trying that now? no chance.

Sure it "feels" nicer now because we are all sedated by our modern luxuries. But I far preferred the 1990's to modern day Britain.

I don't think peeps seem to realise how bad it was after WWII. This country was broken. While many countries surged ahead, the UK had to go cap in hand to the US for a massive loan to avoid complete collapse. We only just finished paying that loan off forty years later and indeed it took that long to get the country back on it's feet. The optimism of the sixties led to the wealth of the eighties, I think, but I am afraid that optimism has gone now. It comes down to more than just recession, people's outlook in the 2020's is completely different to forty years ago. Today we have realised we are making one almighty mess of this world, and perhaps we can never achieve everything we dream about.

Exactly this. The improvements from the 80's to early 2000's were, in my opinion, a brief upward tick once the country got back on its feet. I think it's continuing its downward slide again now.

 

[MookJong]

You're talking like 1% of people if that. Of course there are exceptions to generalisations. As you pointed out.

1% of clubbers were there primarily to hook up rather than enjoy the scene, the atmosphere and time with their friends? Any 90s / early 00s clubbers want to back me up here as this is just not my experience. The venue, the DJs and being part something bigger than yourself was a primary driver back in the day. I mean the word "Club" means a collective.

 

[adam cool dude]

Music has absolutely gotten worse over the past 15-20 years. That is a fact.

A lot of stuff has been dumbed down a lot. I would love to go to a Live Aid type gig but nothing of the sort has really happened for the past 20 years. Things like Fat Boy Slims party at Brighton beach and stuff like that. The wife always wants to go and see a gig but there is pretty much no artist that I would want to see at all.

Motor Racing has become far too controlled that it is totally boring. I would have loved to have gone and seen Lemans at its best camping at the side of the track in the late 80's. Now it is impossible.

Football on the world stage has just become some rubbish propaganda machine. With the exception of Russia 2018. The last decent world cup was 1998. You used to be able to go and watch games with ease. Especially major finals. Now it is just for the rich corporate world.

Gaming has also become very stale with a huge focus on graphics than gameplay. My Series X has been used to play Mass Effect games which are nearly 15 years old. All the new stuff is extremely boring. Resident Evil has gone backwards and there hasn't been a decent new IP for over ten years.

 

[dlockers]

A few examples off the top of my head.

Sure we have nice gadgets now to make our lives more pleasant. But the loss of the empire and the cost of trying to keep that empire (which is a big reason we fought WW1 and WW2) has put the nation in significant debt. Our national debt is huge now (WW1 debt paid but we've been in debt ever since - and it's growing). A very significant amount of tax paid by all of us goes to service that debt. There is less money available to improve the country because of the debt we have to pay. I'm not saying the empire was a good thing but simply highlighting the impact.

Back around the beginning of the 20th century we only needed one income for the average person to live. Now many households need both parents working to manage to pay the rent/mortgage. That has an affect on the whole family as parents are stressed and have to farm out childcare.

There is a far higher percentage of single parent families, which in my opinion is a significant cause of the youth gangs. London is getting a bit... stabby.

The manufacturing industry has been decimated by globalisation. Everything we buy from abroad is money flowing out of our country, further eroding our wealth. Want that cheap Chinese good? Well there is a real cost of buying cheap. It makes you poorer.

The unity of the UK is at a real low point with a prospect of it breaking up in my lifetime.

There are restrictions everywhere on where you can drive, what you can drive and even where you can walk. This might be a small thing but it demonstrates the gradual loss of freedoms we have. When I was a child I went to see Stonehenge. I don't just mean see it but climb on it. Good luck getting close to it now. Again just one example of the loss of freedom. I'm sure people will argue it's a good thing that we can't climb on it but it's a good example of a personal loss of freedom.

Cheap travel is gone for good. Even when the current restrictions are lifted it will never return to how it was. Again there is an argument to say that's a good thing. I'm not denying it. But the good times are over.

Need a job as an inexperienced school/uni leaver? Sure, just apply for a sales assistant in a shop. Oh wait the high street is in terminal decline.

Almost everything we do is for short term benefit now. We used to be a real leader in so many sectors. But for short term cost reduction we have allowed those skills to fall away. Genuine apprenticeships have disappeared. Everyone is expected to get into debt at university instead. Most of our industry is owned by foreign companies. Need a nuclear reactor (which we used to be a pioneering country in)? We need France or China to help us. Build better motorways? Nope, let's repurpose the hard shoulder. Build up a strong IT industry for the future? Nope, let's hire people from abroad a let our previous lead disappear. Even though the 60's were a tough time we still had a space programme in the form of Black Arrow. Could you imagine us trying that now? no chance.

Sure it "feels" nicer now because we are all sedated by our modern luxuries. But I far preferred the 1990's to modern day Britain.



Exactly this. The improvements from the 80's to early 2000's were, in my opinion, a brief upward tick once the country got back on its feet. I think it's continuing its downward slide again now.

Your views are so unbalanced and myopic I never feel the need to invest the energy to reply. My only parting comments from this are to check things that really matter.

Also the fact that you refer to the Empire as a source of pride given it only existed a way to exploit slave labour and destroy the environment is also laughable. It put us in a great position of privilege but is no way to rule if morals are important to you.

 

[Hades]

Music has absolutely gotten worse over the past 15-20 years. That is a fact.

A lot of stuff has been dumbed down a lot. I would love to go to a Live Aid type gig but nothing of the sort has really happened for the past 20 years. Things like Fat Boy Slims party at Brighton beach and stuff like that. The wife always wants to go and see a gig but there is pretty much no artist that I would want to see at all.

Motor Racing has become far too controlled that it is totally boring. I would have loved to have gone and seen Lemans at its best camping at the side of the track in the late 80's. Now it is impossible.

I think music is very subjective and my kids hate my kind of music. But in hindsight I wish I'd gone to so many more music events when I was younger. e.g. Queen at Wembley, etc. Also if I could go back in time I'd make an effort to actually watch F1 and Group B Rally live.

 

[dlockers]

1% of clubbers were there primarily to hook up rather than enjoy the scene, the atmosphere and time with their friends? Any 90s / early 00s clubbers want to back me up here as this is just not my experience. The venue, the DJs and being part something bigger than yourself was a primary driver back in the day. I mean the word "Club" means a collective.

The guy is a clown. Sounds like an incel type comment. Clearly early 90's and 00's clubbing was about the ectasy, not pulling a chick. Why pull a chick when you are not fit for the purpose?

You're talking like 1% of people if that. Of course there are exceptions to generalisations. As you pointed out.

 

[Hades]

Your views are so unbalanced and myopic I never feel the need to invest the energy to reply. My only parting comments from this are to check things that really matter.

Also the fact that you refer to the Empire as a source of pride given it only existed a way to exploit slave labour and destroy the environment is also laughable. It put us in a great position of privilege but is no way to rule if morals are important to you.

I didn't refer to the empire with pride. I even highlighted in my reply that I wasn't saying empire was a good thing and I was only identifying the impact it has had on the country. But like many people nowadays you seem to have been triggered by the word empire and ignored the actual words.

My views may seem unbalanced to you because you hold very different values to me. That's fine. I'm OK with you holding alternating views and can accept others do not feel the same way. It's a pity more people don't accept others views which may differ from their own. But I guess that's another declining attitude in the country.

 

[adam cool dude]

I think music is very subjective and my kids hate my kind of music. But in hindsight I wish I'd gone to so many more music events when I was younger. e.g. Queen at Wembley, etc. Also if I could go back in time I'd make an effort to actually watch F1 and Group B Rally live.

My daughter is 13 and mostly listens to my kind of stuff. She is quite versed compared to her friends. I am also not genre specific and will switch from extremes like Creedance to the Prodigy. I just hit a brick wall around 2010. I cannot stand Edd Sheeran or Adele or "Artists" like that. Most stuff is basically pop acts or groups as well. Bands who sound the best live are pretty much dead now.

 

[EdwardTeach]

Living through the 80's/90's, with the fall of the Berlin wall and end of the soviet union, and the good friday agreement, there was a sense of optimism, i.e. that we were heading towards peace at home and abroad. This was punctured by 9/11 and with the rise of Putin, Xi Jinping, atuturk etc it has never returned.

 

[Efour]

The guy is a clown. Sounds like an incel type comment. Clearly early 90's and 00's clubbing was about the ecstasy, not pulling a chick. Why pull a chick when you are not fit for the purpose?

Come On dude i did my fair share of pills and LSD (way way too much) at clubs but i'm not talking about those clubs im talking about the 9 out of 10 generic "fosters" clubs in city centers on friday and saturday nights.

I don't usually get triggered but calling me an incel lol just did it.... * you must be at least 40 why would you use the word incel? that's like makes you sound like youre ten years younger at the least, its such a 00s word... Makes me wonder if you even did half this stuff. Probably wrong. Definitely wrong. I'm sure. But that means you just spent most your time in Camden in the 00s... Which means you actually missed out on the entire rave scene, which ofc was better.. because that was my generation and we did it all better... see how that goes?

Look back at your youth and you'll see you and i were nothing special just a small slice of a scene that was always incredibly niche.

Whatever i know what i mean and for once i cant be bothered to argue about nonsense. Every generation has this crap, dropping pills made everything so awesome, you could have been sat in someone's garage gurning your face off to a clock radio.

Yeah you're young with other young people all doing young new exciting things, everything is new and fresh, this is you and your group making an impact on the world like every generation ever.... Honestly its nothing new.
Just our generation didn't have to go over the top, join the nazi party or do a Dday. We just got wrecked and danced till 4am then smoked an ounce of weed to try and get a grip on our minds.

 

[Bassmansam]

Music has absolutely gotten worse over the past 15-20 years. That is a fact.

A lot of stuff has been dumbed down a lot. I would love to go to a Live Aid type gig but nothing of the sort has really happened for the past 20 years. Things like Fat Boy Slims party at Brighton beach and stuff like that. The wife always wants to go and see a gig but there is pretty much no artist that I would want to see at all.
focus on graphics than gameplay. My Series X has been used to play Mass Effect games which are nearly 15 years old. All the new stuff is extremely boring. Resident Evil has gone backwards and there hasn't been a decent new IP for over ten years.

Totally the opposite for me, most of the albums I listen to these days came out im the last 20 years. I also have quite a few gigs lined up when they are allowed. I think in the mainstream there isn't much good going on but theres plenty going on under the surface so to speak.

 

[GreatAuk]

I get the same feeling as OP, but for different reasons I guess. I'm not really old enough to remember what adult life was like before 2010 and only left uni in 2015 so I don't really have personal experience of what it was actually like to live more than a decade ago. However I still get the feeling that things are going downhill based on what I remember of the 00's and what I hear about earlier decades, and I'm not confident they'll stop any time soon.
- politics today is so divisive and simplistic, with authoritarian tendencies on both sides, plus the quality of politicians seems to have dropped off a cliff. Blatant lying etc seems much more acceptable than it used to. Coupled with the poor quality of the news media, I don't see what can reverse this trend.
- in wider society and social media the discourse on political matters is often so full of hate and intolerance for other opinions, and particularly on the left it feels like the direction of travel has been towards completely remodelling society in a way I find scary. I blame social media for creating a generation of people that feel their own particular brand of politics is the absolute right way to run society and anyone that disagrees is evil. I don't know how we'll get out of this hole.
- real life communities seem to be getting rarer and weaker, replaced by social media communities which while sometimes a good thing just don't generate the same level of connection as a real life one.
- economically things have been pretty stagnant since the financial crash and I can't help feeling that there will be a slow decline in the next few decades rather than a steady improvement.
- the trend seems for every place, thing, and experience to be packaged up and commodified, turned into a little tourist attraction or selfie opportunity rather than being valued for what it is.
- on the world stage it seems like we're headed for a new cold war with China, and I can't imagine any positive events (eg fall of the Berlin Wall type thing) that I can look forward too.

Then there are other petty things like how social media etc as well as some government policy has led to a tourist explosion in places like Skye which I still remember being quite quiet and remote when we went on family holidays as a kid. It is certainly not quiet any more! Not really a big deal compared to other stuff though.

Basically overall it feels to me like we're in a state of decay, and I'm worried about where society is headed. Unfortunately rather than creating a utopia, modern technology has accelerated the disintegration of the society we had and is replacing it with a more divided less human one (despite some technology being very convenient and appreciated on an individual level).

Maybe this is only a temporary state of affairs and we'll be back on an upwards trajectory before long, but I guess I just don't see the path for that at the moment.

On an individual level there are lots of things I'm looking forward to in the future, to but on a societal level I don't feel the same.

 

[potatolord]

We're living in the golden years. The UK is so peaked in living standards, health care and technology that any improvement is small and incremental. I don't see it as a decline, but a plateau.

I'm not saying the UK is perfect, but we're pretty damn lucky to be where we are and when we are.

I struggle to think of anything that is objectively worse than when I was a kid/ young man.

As to the future- well, who knows?

 

[MookJong]

While living standards are amazing, mental health seems to be suffering. There has never been more help out there for mental health and there is less stigma than ever which is great. But I do wonder if anyone is really interested in finding out the drivers for it.

It's very hard to just find your sense of place in your local community now. Everything is global and you tend to feel more atomised. I'm pleased I grew up in the smaller and what now seems quaint world of the 1990s.