DLSS 2.0: why aren’t more people raving about it?

KillBoY_UK · 24 Feb 2021 at 16:20

no_1_dave said:
I find it funny that people keep saying "AMD are making an open standard" and "When AMD release theirs" etc etc

AMD are doing nothing... MS are developing and releasing Direct ML, all AMD need to do is program their drivers to know what it is. AMD are just waiting for somebody else to do the hard work and when it's finished people will climb on their high horses and claim AMD are saviours because they're supporting the open standard. When in fact NV will also support Direct ML and you need to ask yourself, would MS have actively developed Direct ML if NV hadn't given them the nudge by making their own proprietary DLSS? And would AMD be supporting Direct ML so vocally is DLSS didn't exist?

Hopefully having Direct ML will encourage devs to use it more though, it would be a saving grace for people who game on mid-range cards!!

Direct ML and DLSS are two different things.

DirectML is a API like any other but for machine learning in general, so it could be used make a DLSS like option but its not a simple as enabling it in a driver, denoising could be done with Direct ML as well. DirectML could have some very cool applications and not just image upscaling. While DLSS is just a single use of AI/ML to upscale the image.

Will DirectML be a thing ? or will it just gather dust like DirectCompute/OpenCL

Richdog · 26 Feb 2021 at 05:26

wunkley said:
Having only got an Ampere card very recently, I’ve only just got around to trying out a few games with DLSS 2.0. To say I’m impressed is an understatement.

I was very sceptical when I first heard about DLSS as I simply thought that any sort of upscaling would never, ever, be as good as running native resolution. Well butter my arse, I was wrong. On quality setting it looks just as good from my own pixel peeping tests as native resolution, and from various videos around on the tubes it can even enhance some games compared to native res.

The obvious ‘free’ performance uptick you get from running it is brilliant. Why aren’t more people raving about DLSS 2.0 in here? Are there downsides I don’t know about yet?

Heisenberg said:
The only downside is it's not available in more games.

The only people I have seen diss DLSS are people who don't have an Nvidia card. DLSS 2.0 is revolutionary, it literally DOUBLES FRAMERATES with very little noticeable visual impact... if that isn't a big thing, especially for eople with lower-end cards wanting to get more performance for their money, then I don't know what is.

Soon, a lot more people will be talking about it as it gets rolled out into more games. AMD need to get their version out to market asap.

wunkley · 26 Feb 2021 at 10:44

Richdog said:
The only people I have seen diss DLSS are people who don't have an Nvidia card. DLSS 2.0 is revolutionary, it literally DOUBLES FRAMERATES with very little noticeable visual impact... if that isn't a big thing, especially for eople with lower-end cards wanting to get more performance for their money, then I don't know what is.

Soon, a lot more people will be talking about it as it gets rolled out into more games. AMD need to get their version out to market asap.

Yep.
what’s your thoughts on whether Nvidia are shooting themselves in the foot almost with DLSS?
I.e. If the technology, already very good, keeps improving, and more games start using it - there will be no need to buy the top tier cards anymore?

ebilcake · 26 Feb 2021 at 11:02

wunkley said:
Yep.
what’s your thoughts on whether Nvidia are shooting themselves in the foot almost with DLSS?
I.e. If the technology, already very good, keeps improving, and more games start using it - there will be no need to buy the top tier cards anymore?

It's not always double, maybe with balanced or performance, and/or when Raytracing is enabled... But even if it's just 30-50%% with quality enabled, that's still a nice performance gain.

Mesai · 26 Feb 2021 at 11:15

wunkley said:
Yep.
what’s your thoughts on whether Nvidia are shooting themselves in the foot almost with DLSS?
I.e. If the technology, already very good, keeps improving, and more games start using it - there will be no need to buy the top tier cards anymore?

You can look at it another way, if DLSS became consistently available in new games, you could buy, for example, a 3070 instead of a 3080, which translates into Nvidia having the more competitive offering.

Phixsator · 26 Feb 2021 at 11:24

Mesai said:
You can look at it another way, if DLSS became consistently available in new games, you could buy, for example, a 3070 instead of a 3080, which translates into Nvidia having the more competitive offering.

Or you can have the very skeptical hat on and Nvidia would just turn x60/x70 class dies into x80 GPUs as they have done before due to the uplift in performance from DLSS.

Mesai · 26 Feb 2021 at 12:43

Phixsator said:
Or you can have the very skeptical hat on and Nvidia would just turn x60/x70 class dies into x80 GPUs as they have done before due to the uplift in performance from DLSS.

They will definitely do whatever makes them the most money and keeps them competitive. With AMD on their heels and Intel potentially having something relevant, they can’t afford to skimp on performance.

Richdog · 26 Feb 2021 at 13:00

wunkley said:
Yep.
what’s your thoughts on whether Nvidia are shooting themselves in the foot almost with DLSS?
I.e. If the technology, already very good, keeps improving, and more games start using it - there will be no need to buy the top tier cards anymore?

I think as graphical fidelity and resolution increases in line with advances in hardware that there will always be people buying top-tier cards.

Phixsator · 26 Feb 2021 at 17:59

Mesai said:
They will definitely do whatever makes them the most money and keeps them competitive. With AMD on their heels and Intel potentially having something relevant, they can’t afford to skimp on performance.

They certainly will and nobody for a second shouldn't think that AMD is any different in this regard. Though their methods usually differs.

Dominic-Toretto · 27 Feb 2021 at 21:44

Is it possible to use DLSS to upscale from 4K Native -> 8K DLSS and then back down to 4K display resolution?

Also does this work in all games, or is it a case by case basis

Donnie Fisher · 27 Feb 2021 at 21:52

What on earth would the point in that be ?

Dominic-Toretto · 27 Feb 2021 at 21:53

Donnie Fisher said:
What on earth would the point in that be ?

Essentially a form of SSAA via DLSS.

Scougar · 27 Feb 2021 at 22:24

Because it's a band-aid that can't be applied to most games.

Grim5 · 1 Apr 2021 at 21:22

Outriders supports dlss2.1 at launch, 73% performance uplift at 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icjLJ2EbYmk

Richdog · 2 Apr 2021 at 06:47

Grim5 said:
Outriders supports dlss2.1 at launch, 73% performance uplift at 4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icjLJ2EbYmk

Crazy... 4k Ultra DLSS at 70fps+ on a 3060 and it looks almost indistinguishable, in practical terms while playing, to 4k native at 40fps. Honestly, the underlying tech of DLSS and the performance improvements are amazing and anyone who says otherwise is either outright lying or genuinely delusional.

Zeeflyboy · 2 Apr 2021 at 07:56

Into the radius is the first VR game afaik that has implemented DLSS2.1 - anyone here got it to let us know how it works in VR finally?

Dan87 · 2 Apr 2021 at 08:23

I've found it to be a bit of a mixed bag, while 2.0 is a miles better than 1, black ops cold war for example looks really bad in motion. a blurry mess. death stranding its flawless

Joxeon · 2 Apr 2021 at 08:30

Richdog said:
Crazy... 4k Ultra DLSS at 70fps+ on a 3060 and it looks almost indistinguishable, in practical terms while playing, to 4k native at 40fps. Honestly, the underlying tech of DLSS and the performance improvements are amazing and anyone who says otherwise is either outright lying or genuinely delusional.

I do like DLSS but until it's available in all games it's never really going to be a killer feature.

Richdog · 2 Apr 2021 at 08:35

Joxeon said:
I do like DLSS but until it's available in all games it's never really going to be a killer feature.

DLSS isn't a great feature because it's not in ALL games? That is some weak logic.

It is of course not in all games but the adoption of it is building pace and even at this point it is an amazing feature regardless. I don't see how there is anything to criticise vs it not existing... it is literally free performance without a significant impact in IQ which is amazing for owners of all GPU's from weak to strong.

Joxeon · 2 Apr 2021 at 08:45

Richdog said:
DLSS isn't a great feature because it's not in ALL games? That is some weak sauce logic... but no less than I expect.

The same applies with RT, I mean I'd still buy an nvidia card over AMD if they are priced similarly and with similar raster but if AMD could offer 20% higher raster or 20% cheaper then I'd probably go with AMD as I don't think DLSS is worth spending that much more on currently since not enough games have it.

Once we get into the MCM era for Gpus then techs like DLSS probably won't even be needed anymore as raster should increase by a large amount and techs like RT will be less heavy to implement, just look at the way desktop CPU power has increased with MCM just in the space of 4 years so in a few years time we may have Gpus that are 4~500% more powerful than they are today making even 8K with RT possible without stuff like DLSS.