Audi warranty denial....

turbo · 8 Mar 2021 at 12:07

Zeeflyboy said:
This seems key - if the overcharge lines up with when the RAC boosted you or had the car in their possession, surely that's then a club to beat RAC over the head with?

The workshop manager actually said 'it would be nice if it gave us a date and time or cause for the surge but it does not'. My reading into that was that it just gave a fault code and did not actually attach it to a point in time?

dlockers · 8 Mar 2021 at 12:13

turbo said:
The workshop manager actually said 'it would be nice if it gave us a date and time or cause for the surge but it does not'. My reading into that was that it just gave a fault code and did not actually attach it to a point in time?

I have fingers crossed they step down from their high horse/blame on the Ghost for you. They really don't seem to have anything other than "chancing" statements at you getting tired and taking it to another garage.

muon · 8 Mar 2021 at 20:08

turbo said:
The solicitor has sent me down the Consumer Rights Path. They have quoted the following in the letter they sent me to send...

In these circumstances, I am requesting a repair or replacement (Section 23).
Section 23(2) provides that any remedy must be provided within a reasonable time, without causing significant inconvenience and whilst the seller bears the necessary costs. If this cannot be done or a further fault arises then I will be entitled to reject the item and obtain a refund under Section 24.
As a direct result of your breach of contract I have suffered consequential losses, such has having to use an alternative vehicle to get to and from work and for other essential journeys. I have been paying £xxx per month for a vehicle that I have not been able to use.
Consumer rights are separate and distinct to any warranty or guarantee and cannot be restricted or excluded as per Section 31 Consumer Rights Act 2015.
They are enforceable for 6 years after purchase against the seller.

They said we will see how they respond to that and then subject to their comments proceed accordingly.

But all they have to show is that the damage was likely caused by something else.

turbo · 8 Mar 2021 at 21:06

muon said:
But all they have to show is that the damage was likely caused by something else.

If they can show that then I can go to the RAC I suspect. However the comments by the dealer still do not explain the initial cause for breakdown do they? Could a bad alternator cause a surge? Its going to roll on I am sure but the solicitor seemed to have plenty of avenues to go down if the need arose.

andy_mk3 · 8 Mar 2021 at 21:27

turbo said:
The workshop manager actually said 'it would be nice if it gave us a date and time or cause for the surge but it does not'. My reading into that was that it just gave a fault code and did not actually attach it to a point in time?

From my experience all modern VAG group cars of fault codes with a snapshot of time, date, milage, fault frequency etc.

An example..

Code:

1 Fault Found:
3170305 - Databus
          U1121 00 [009] - Missing Message
          [COMI_TIMEOUT_ARA01]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 212
                    Mileage: 6002 km
                    Date: 2021.02.24
                    Time: 20:26:12

                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-System status: 0
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Terminal 30 power supply: 11.81 V
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Terminal 15 status measured: On
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Engine steering torque sensor: average value: 0.00 Nm
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Terminal 15 resulting: On
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Terminal 15 status signal: On
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Steering pinion angle: offset corrected: 6.81 °
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-ARA_signal_red_cyclic: 00
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-PLA_signal_red_cyclic: 00
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-SCU state: System OK
                    FreezeFrame_mw_120C_Timeout-Steering_angle_sender_status: System OK

Dandle · 8 Mar 2021 at 21:35

Every log has a time stamp on it.

turbo · 8 Mar 2021 at 21:59

would this still be the case if the battery power was to the point of a none start situation? i.e. date and time reset due to battery to low? Maybe this is why he said this information wasn't available?

Dandle · 8 Mar 2021 at 22:03

If there's enough power to generate a log it will have a time stamp. The clock doesn't loose it's time in the ECUs.

jpaul · 8 Mar 2021 at 22:34

Dandle said:
Every log has a time stamp on it.

the audi log google had shown me before my earlier post seemed to show some events/modules don't generate stamps https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/10950/

but, maybe they made errors extracting the data for ops car eg. cleared them.

Dandle · 8 Mar 2021 at 22:50

jpaul said:
the audi log google had shown me before my earlier post seemed to show some events/modules don't generate stamps https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/10950/

but, maybe they made errors extracting the data for ops car eg. cleared them.

The faults there all have time stamps.

Hagar · 8 Mar 2021 at 23:04

I don't think an RAC patrol van would have made any difference versus an RAC approved recovery trailer. Both would probably boost the car to start it. Maybe even blowing some WD40 into the air filter intake to assist.
If this develops against the recovery agents a lot of newer cars may suddenly become far more expensive to insure for recovery.

booyaka · 9 Mar 2021 at 09:44

I think the issue you are still going to have is getting anyone to take responsibility for the "damage"

Audi are saying it's been damaged by an "outside" source - Whether that is you, RAC or Ghost immobiliser. They are not playing ball, which you can understand at this point in time.

"IF" you end up with Audi saying the boosting from RAC caused the damage, you are potentially going to have to pursue RAC which could take months.

I don't envy your position here - Have you spoke to Audi Customer services? Maybe try them and explain the situation.

turbo · 9 Mar 2021 at 09:47

booyaka said:
Have you spoke to Audi Customer services? Maybe try them and explain the situation.

Yes I spoke to Audi customer services once I knew the local dealerships position on the matter. They were not helpful saying warranty disputes are handled by the dealerships only and not Audi UK. I was instructed by my solicitor to send my letter to VWFS who are the finance company (and therefore owners of the vehicle) to complain. We will see what transpires from that in due course...

WJA96 · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:01

turbo said:
Yes I spoke to Audi customer services once I knew the local dealerships position on the matter. They were not helpful saying warranty disputes are handled by the dealerships only and not Audi UK. I was instructed by my solicitor to send my letter to VWFS who are the finance company (and therefore owners of the vehicle) to complain. We will see what transpires from that in due course...

I’m sure that you got permission from VWFS to fit the Ghost immobiliser before you did it, didn’t you? If not, expect little sympathy or assistance from them. In fact, they might just cut up rough! I had a genuine Audi parking heater installed by an authorised Audi dealer in Germany using an Audi kit and they still kicked off when I made a warranty claim on the heating system. Luckily Audi Germany honoured the warranty on that occasion but Audi UK wanted nothing to do with it. It’s the Abt tuning kit nonsense all over again. Everywhere except the UK you can have an Abt tuning box fitted to yiur car by a VAG dealer and it’s covered by the warranty (or an additional Abt warranty that VAG accept). UK? Nope. Not allowed. VAG in the UK don’t like cars on PCP or other forms of finance being messed with.

booyaka · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:06

turbo said:
Yes I spoke to Audi customer services once I knew the local dealerships position on the matter. They were not helpful saying warranty disputes are handled by the dealerships only and not Audi UK. I was instructed by my solicitor to send my letter to VWFS who are the finance company (and therefore owners of the vehicle) to complain. We will see what transpires from that in due course...

Fair enough - I would be prepared for a long drawn out situation. Finance company will no doubt just refer you back to the garage with the same response I suspect. i.e any warranty issues are down to the dealer/garage.

There are too many "outside" factors involve still - RAC/Ghost fitting - Audi will continue to put the impetus on you to eliminate these before they do anything.

Dangerous Dave · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:12

I would get someone with VCDS to go to the dealer and do a full scan of the car pulling the logs/codes off the car before they clear them off as it sounds suspicious to me they can't pull time stamps to help piece together the order of failure.

There must have been and under lying fault which generated the errors that caused the amber then red warning that caused you to pull over initially. It could be something as simple as the regulator failing on the alternator causing the charge circuit to overvolt, I've had this with a BMW and it flagged up overvoltage codes on several modules with no permanent damage caused after the alternator and battery were replaced under warranty.

Dandle · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:19

There will be a log of when the over charge/current happened. If you can get the time then you can prove if it was caused by someone boosting it or the car having an issue. This is the only thing you got to help you and I doubt the dealer will give you a copy of the logs unless you solicitor asks for them. Other then that you can back out of the finance deal but I guess you loose a lot of money then.

They have you over a barrel really and they won't be bothered if the cars left there.

Have you found out how much the repairs are to get it going again?

Semple · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:33

WJA96 said:
I’m sure that you got permission from VWFS to fit the Ghost immobiliser before you did it, didn’t you? If not, expect little sympathy or assistance from them. In fact, they might just cut up rough! I had a genuine Audi parking heater installed by an authorised Audi dealer in Germany using an Audi kit and they still kicked off when I made a warranty claim on the heating system. Luckily Audi Germany honoured the warranty on that occasion but Audi UK wanted nothing to do with it. It’s the Abt tuning kit nonsense all over again. Everywhere except the UK you can have an Abt tuning box fitted to yiur car by a VAG dealer and it’s covered by the warranty (or an additional Abt warranty that VAG accept). UK? Nope. Not allowed. VAG in the UK don’t like cars on PCP or other forms of finance being messed with.

IIRC there's been a few youtubers who've been stung by their finance company by having modifications done to a car that they technically do not own. Whilst these mods might be much more obvious than a ghost immobiliser. It would still be deemed as an aftermarket mod, and VWFS could well and truly insist you pay for the car in full.

theone8181 · 9 Mar 2021 at 10:56

If it's popular and you have gap cover, why bother with a ghost?

WJA96 · 9 Mar 2021 at 13:10

Semple said:
IIRC there's been a few youtubers who've been stung by their finance company by having modifications done to a car that they technically do not own. Whilst these mods might be much more obvious than a ghost immobiliser. It would still be deemed as an aftermarket mod, and VWFS could well and truly insist you pay for the car in full.

Yes, there was a guy on the SEAT CUPRA forums who blew up his heavily modified car, tried to get some warranty cover and was just sent a final demand to pay up in full.