Poll: *** The Official iPhone 12 (12 mini/12/12Pro/12Pro Max) Thread ***

[Alpherah]

Just restore the phone using iTunes on windows or finder on Mac.

 

[MoRT489]

170GB of photos it took 4 days to download them all from iCloud

 

[Barks]

So I've been quite vocal in this thread about the 12 being a nothing upgrade from the 11. Long story short I've managed to make it economical to upgrade from my 11 Pro and I've ended up with a 12 Pro Max.

For the most part, I stand by my comments. It's not really an upgrade is it if we're being honest. 5G - who really cares especially during lockdown. Speed/performance I can't notice a difference. What I will say is the experience of going from the smaller 11 Pro to the 12 Max has been awesome. I've always thought the Max would be overkill but thought I'd take the risk and I have to say I love it. Find myself watching media on it when I didn't before, sharing photos etc. So for me the experience of the larger screen has been a positive one.

But one thing for me really stands out and that is ProRaw. I'm been a vocal critic of the aggressive image processing used in phones by Apple and Samsung. Take a photo of a beautiful sunset scene and you end up with a cartoonish mess because of the processing and sharpening. ProRaw is a game changer. It gives you full control over the image and the choice to override the nasty default processing and I have to say for the first time ever, I would now be happy taking a proper photograph with my 12 Max if I didn't have my Fujifilm on me. That's a big step in my mind.

Examples of what I mean below. As a photography geek I would be interested to hear what people think. I can see why the processed photo might appeal to some but for me I much prefer the natural look of the Pro Raw.

iPhone 12 Max - Point and shoot


iPhone 12 Max - ProRaw

 

[GMac11]

Examples of what I mean below. As a photography geek I would be interested to hear what people think. I can see why the processed photo might appeal to some but for me I much prefer the natural look of the Pro Raw.

I unfortunately cannot fully relate as I went with the standard 12 so don't have ProRaw but I do agree with your findings regarding the general point and shoot performance.

I had a better example to demonstrate this but I must have deleted it. The below shot is cropped to accentuate the processing in the highlights.

As with your shot the phone seems to deal pretty well with shadows - almost too well and at the expense of the highlights. I don't know why but I was expecting a better dynamic range performance but seemingly the JPEG processing has hampered that.
I too shoot Fuji and have since learned that shooting anything resembling a high DR is best left to the proper tool for the job.

The other factor is that clearly, to a photographer, the second of your two images is better as it retains more detail and realism. However, the vast majority of non-photographers would likely prefer the first image. That is likely what Apple (and other manufacturers) have in mind when they design their image processing engine. Just a thought.

 

[chef-borjan]

Yes, I'm very interested in Pro Raw, as I've been dabbling with phone photography for a good while.

There is a really interesting set of blog posts from Halide that go into the technical details behind it, do check them out if you want to learn more.

https://blog.halide.cam/understanding-proraw-4eed556d4c54

For me, the struggle will be to understand when I should be using Halide verus the native camera app for 'serious' photography. To be fair, both seem like very viable solutions now.

 

[Barks]

Yes, I'm very interested in Pro Raw, as I've been dabbling with phone photography for a good while.

There is a really interesting set of blog posts from Halide that go into the technical details behind it, do check them out if you want to learn more.

https://blog.halide.cam/understanding-proraw-4eed556d4c54

For me, the struggle will be to understand when I should be using Halide verus the native camera app for 'serious' photography. To be fair, both seem like very viable solutions now.

Thanks for sharing that. Great read.

I've had a play with Halide this morning and I still prefer the more manual results as opposed to all the computational stuff. I guess I'm just far too accustomed to the natural 'Fuji' look - I don't understand the obsession with removing grain from photographs. Some of the best photographs I've ever taken are high ISO and high shutter night shots on my Fuji with visible grain and they're fantastic photographs.

The other factor is that clearly, to a photographer, the second of your two images is better as it retains more detail and realism. However, the vast majority of non-photographers would likely prefer the first image. That is likely what Apple (and other manufacturers) have in mind when they design their image processing engine. Just a thought.

That's just it isn't it and I wouldn't have a problem with the processing if it wasn't so overkill. I actually had an S20+ this time last year for a month and sent it back because the image enhancement was so aggressive it was unusable for me. Apple are better than Samsung in terms of keeping the colours controlled but the sharpening again goes way too far.

I mean look at these taken point and shoot on the Max. To my eyes they're absolutely awful and the sharpening is just ridiculous. I almost can't believe this passed quality controls in their product development process, horrid.

 

[Barks]

Actually to be fair I just did a quick Google and it appears there are plenty of people complaining about the same issue. They’ve basically copied Samsung.

 

[chef-borjan]

I think what a lot of 'the masses' want are images that almost look like something out of a commercial advertising shoot, rather than soft and cinematic. Not the best terminology but I think you know what I mean.

And although you will hate it, if you shoot in RAW you will get far less processing going on, and in Lightroom you can add back in some grain and 'blur'. It's not ideal but you still get nice looking shots.

And do read the whole of that Halide Blog, a few different articles but all are useful.

 

[Barks]

I think what a lot of 'the masses' want are images that almost look like something out of a commercial advertising shoot, rather than soft and cinematic. Not the best terminology but I think you know what I mean.

Oh I agree but that’s the irony. A photographer or creative agency/advertiser would never sign off an image that looks that terrible.

If the TV manufacturers applied the same “enhancement” people would walk out the showrooms but I guess consumers are so conditioned to Instagram fodder they probably don’t even realise how fake their iPhone photos actually look! You can see the difference if you use Live photos and you’re scrolling through the photos app as the moving Live photos are unprocessed and look entirely normal.

I think this winds me up more than the dynamic range compression phase 15-20 years ago so songs would be louder with headphones. You had Remasters released on CD with no dynamic range. It was basically destroying the media so that it was “optimised” for MP3s as the most popular mode of consumption. This is exactly the same thing.

 

[Squink]

Oh I agree but that’s the irony. A photographer or creative agency/advertiser would never sign off an image that looks that terrible.

If the TV manufacturers applied the same “enhancement” people would walk out the showrooms but I guess consumers are so conditioned to Instagram fodder they probably don’t even realise how fake their iPhone photos actually look! You can see the difference if you use Live photos and you’re scrolling through the photos app as the moving Live photos are unprocessed and look entirely normal.

I don't get this. I just did an image search for 'professional photographs' and every single one had massively exaggerated colours, doubtless added by the photographer after the image was taken and added because that photographer thought the RAW needed enhancement. Why is it such a problem for a consumer device (designed by huge teams of enormously skilled engineers) to attempt the same thing?

 

[Barks]

I don't get this. I just did an image search for 'professional photographs' and every single one had massively exaggerated colours, doubtless added by the photographer after the image was taken and added because that photographer thought the RAW needed enhancement. Why is it such a problem for a consumer device (designed by huge teams of enormously skilled engineers) to attempt the same thing?

There’s nothing wrong with it. My objection is it’s the default setting and unless you shoot in ProRaw it is forced upon you. The algorithms, however smart they may be, are not infallible and often end up completely ruining otherwise beautiful photos. It’s bordering on not even being “photography” but CGI - not everyone wants to capture important life moments in such a contrived over-processed manner.

 

[GMac11]

I don't get this. I just did an image search for 'professional photographs' and every single one had massively exaggerated colours, doubtless added by the photographer after the image was taken and added because that photographer thought the RAW needed enhancement. Why is it such a problem for a consumer device (designed by huge teams of enormously skilled engineers) to attempt the same thing?

To me it's not that they're trying to do it it's that they're trying to do it at the expense of overall quality and, as @Barks says, that it's the default set by the manufacturer.

I have to say I love using my iPhone 12 as a point and shoot camera, especially of my little one round the house and for that purpose I'm more than happy.
But it just doesn't even come close to a purpose built camera for detail and natural shots.

 

[chef-borjan]

I think Portrait mode is another thing that can look very off-putting unless done under ideal conditions.

Sometimes you see the edges not blurring properly, or notice the drop off in DoF doesn't feel right...

That being said, overall as a quick point and shoot option in your pocket its all great.

 

[Barks]

I think Portrait mode is another thing that can look very off-putting unless done under ideal conditions.

Sometimes you see the edges not blurring properly, or notice the drop off in DoF doesn't feel right...

That being said, overall as a quick point and shoot option in your pocket its all great.

Yes as a keen photographer it triggers my inner OCD when I see wine glass edges fade into mist and ears blurred etc. I reckon I could spot the majority of portrait mode photos vs the real thing but I do agree it’s a great tool for the average consumer and works well enough. I’d also say once again that unlike the image sharpening and enhancements forced upon you, portrait mode is a choice and IMO the consumer should have the choice to not have their images ruined by default.

 

[chef-borjan]

It really is awful when you see a tiny bit of background being some hair in sharp focus for a few cms then become blurry... Its like someone got lazy with the lasso tool.

I wouldn't say it straight triggers me though... that honour goes to a smoothing motion being applied to television content or a film. I start foaming at the mouth!

 

[Barks]

It really is awful when you see a tiny bit of background being some hair in sharp focus for a few cms then become blurry... Its like someone got lazy with the lasso tool.

I wouldn't say it straight triggers me though... that honour goes to a smoothing motion being applied to television content or a film. I start foaming at the mouth!

I think it’s just one of those things where if you’re into photography and have experience using lenses that create that level of bokeh, the portrait mode’s flaws really stand out whereas to the untrained eye it’s basically unnoticeable.

Haha that’s not on my radar but also sounds like the sort of thing that I’d find irritating! Luckily still have an old TV so ignorant to all the latest goings on with display tech.

 

[Richy888]

I think it’s just one of those things where if you’re into photography and have experience using lenses that create that level of bokeh, the portrait mode’s flaws really stand out whereas to the untrained eye it’s basically unnoticeable.

Haha that’s not on my radar but also sounds like the sort of thing that I’d find irritating! Luckily still have an old TV so ignorant to all the latest goings on with display tech.

If you are into photography and have used a DSLR you will notice the iPhone camera failings. Most people on the other hand don’t want the hassle and won’t view many of their photographs on anything bigger than a iphone display. All considered the fact that the phone lens are small and at the mercy of whatever they are rubbed against either in a pocket or handbag, then they do very well. The iPhone uses the ‘lasso tool’ in portrait mode a bit like a shotgun which for most will do. Blow it up to any size and the flaws become evident. That said I could never carry a DSLR with me all day every day and this is where an iPhone, or any phone these days excels.

 

[Barks]

If you are into photography and have used a DSLR you will notice the iPhone camera failings. Most people on the other hand don’t want the hassle and won’t view many of their photographs on anything bigger than a iphone display. All considered the fact that the phone lens are small and at the mercy of whatever they are rubbed against either in a pocket or handbag, then they do very well. The iPhone uses the ‘lasso tool’ in portrait mode a bit like a shotgun which for most will do. Blow it up to any size and the flaws become evident. That said I could never carry a DSLR with me all day every day and this is where an iPhone, or any phone these days excels.

I have to agree. When using ProRaw and Halide I am extremely impressed with the results I’m getting. It’s almost to the point where I now wouldn’t be gutted if I wanted to capture something special and didn’t have my Fuji on me. That said there is still an enormous difference between them and no amount of computational or algorithmic wizardry can make up for the smaller sensors and inferior optics in a smartphone. So it is a shame to have seen Apple in the past try and market iPhones and comparable to SLRs which is misleading.

 

[Goodie]

I’m contemplating upgrading from my x to a 12 pro max. The battery is starting to become quite poor and also the charging port is on the way out. If I upgrade now I would be able to trade in for 240 against the pro max from Apple, however I’m thinking that the longer I wait the more chance that the charging port will completely fail which will make the phone value less.

What’s the general consensus, are we pretty much in the window that I may as well just stick it out until September to see what the new phones bring? I get that there’s allot of rumours out about possible improvements but then I feel that’s the same every year and it’s always just incremental and that you only really see a big jump with a 3-4+ year gap.

I’ve got an itch to order a new phone and I need talking out of it

 

[Feek]

he charging port is on the way out.

Have you checked it for fluff? I've found that after a few months of the phone going in and out of my pocket, I just need to scrape out all the dust that's accumulated in there otherwise the lightning connecter gets a bit iffy.