• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Nvidia Has a Driver Overhead Problem, GeForce vs Radeon on Low-End CPUs

Soldato
Joined
15 Oct 2003
Posts
14,777
Location
Chengdu
:p
gamers can't make up their mind, they complain that games were bottlenecked and couldn't utilise all their cores, now they do use al the cores and the ones who use entry level products complain again that they need to upgrade to higher core count cpu

Isn't the annoyance down to the fact that much faster Nvidia cards are slower than AMD GPUs in the same scenario? The problem isn't more cores=more frames, the problem is Nvidia=worse performance than lesser competing hardware.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Nov 2011
Posts
11,376
Interesting you said "decent", judging by your previous post I expected you to only buy the fastest gaming CPU. Since based on the previous post you seem to consider the Ryzen 5 line of CPUs to be "low end".

Regardless today's "decent" CPU is tomorrows "low end" unless you upgrade your CPU along with GPU;)

I upgrade CPU when it gives a performance difference, my current CPU would work fine with a 3080/3090 so I wouldn't need to.

I consider 4 year old 3.2ghz CPU's to be pretty low end now, yes.

I had a Q6600 over 10 years ago and it lasted me about 5 years, I wouldn't expect it to work with an RTX 3090 now though.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
6 Nov 2005
Posts
2,417
I think this is very interesting stuff, it shows an interesting discrepancy between AMD and Nvidia cards. But people do need to take a deep breath and not get all worked up about it. No matter what CPU/GPU pairing you have the goal is always to tweak settings etc to be GPU bound when gaming. Outside of edge cases that's the best way to get the most out of your hardware.

This does highlight a problem, but the problem is just that its worse with an Nvidia GPU if you get the balance wrong and you may have to turn the pretty up a little further to become GPU bound. This does answer the occasional "I've just bought an RTX 3070 and am not getting the performance I was hoping for" question. But the advice people were giving before doesn't change (don't play at 1080p low with a 3070) we just now have a better idea of why its happening.

It also will hopefully allow people to make better upgrade choices. I bet there's a bunch of people with 2600s who will be eyeing the rtx 3060ti. And maybe the answer is to upgrade your monitor first
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,594
I think this is very interesting stuff, it shows an interesting discrepancy between AMD and Nvidia cards. But people do need to take a deep breath and not get all worked up about it. No matter what CPU/GPU pairing you have the goal is always to tweak settings etc to be GPU bound when gaming. Outside of edge cases that's the best way to get the most out of your hardware.

This does highlight a problem, but the problem is just that its worse with an Nvidia GPU if you get the balance wrong and you may have to turn the pretty up a little further to become GPU bound. This does answer the occasional "I've just bought an RTX 3070 and am not getting the performance I was hoping for" question. But the advice people were giving before doesn't change (don't play at 1080p low with a 3070) we just now have a better idea of why its happening.

It also will hopefully allow people to make better upgrade choices. I bet there's a bunch of people with 2600s who will be eyeing the rtx 3060ti. And maybe the answer is to upgrade your monitor first


There have definitely been a few of those type of posts even on this forum . The advice hasn't changed since the HU video, they need a better CPU. In 2021 if you're gonna play at 1080p and you buy a RTX3000 card you're gonna need a very good CPU it's that simple, if you play at 1440p or above then you can continue to use a older less capable cpu
 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
40,566
Location
United Kingdom
There have definitely been a few of those type of posts even on this forum . The advice hasn't changed since the HU video, they need a better CPU. In 2021 if you're gonna play at 1080p and you buy a RTX3000 card you're gonna need a very good CPU it's that simple, if you play at 1440p or above then you can continue to use a older less capable cpu
What about a 1660TI at 1080P?

 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,594
Igors Lab has provided more testing

basically his results are if you play under 2560x1440p and are thinking of RTX3000, make sure you have a modern 8 core CPU or go with AMD if you don't want to get a new CPU. If you play at greater than 2560x1440p then you can still stick with an old 4 core Intel


https://www.igorslab.de/en/driver-o...deon-rx-6900xt-gaming-x-and-your-own-drivers/




Hopefully this helps the endless supply of threads of people asking why their RTX3080 isn't faster than their old GPu :p
 
Caporegime
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Posts
31,045
I installed nvidia drivers over the weekend with nvcleaninstall i.e. no telemetry, bloat and my cpu definitely seemed to get hit less harder in cyberpunk on my 2600 @4.1GHz (3080) @ 3440x1440 144HZ.

Would be interesting to see a comparison like HWU with nvidia default drivers vs nvcleaninstall.

I do intend on getting a 5600x but only at msrp so I may be waiting a while!
 
Associate
Joined
31 Dec 2010
Posts
2,441
Location
Sussex
Igors Lab has provided more testing

basically his results are if you play under 2560x1440p and are thinking of RTX3000, make sure you have a modern 8 core CPU or go with AMD if you don't want to get a new CPU. If you play at greater than 2560x1440p then you can still stick with an old 4 core Intel


https://www.igorslab.de/en/driver-o...deon-rx-6900xt-gaming-x-and-your-own-drivers/




Hopefully this helps the endless supply of threads of people asking why their RTX3080 isn't faster than their old GPu :p
I guess if Ampere needs more CPUs resources to keep the cores feed, then the question they'll ask is why is their new faster GPU slower than their old one, like in the thread with 3080 and the i5 7600K:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/threads/msi-3080-i5-7600k-benchmark.18923320/
Which is something those users weren't expected.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Jan 2006
Posts
24,955
Location
Chadderton, Oldham
Can't watch video as it's blocked, so my rig with a 3700X and a 3080 will be loosing frames due to this or rather only in CPU limited games? But at 4k it won't be an issue but at my desk with 1440p it will? And this is why a 3080 is sometimes slower or even with an older GPU?

So if Nvidia resolve this + we all get RBAR = lots of extra performance?
 
Caporegime
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Posts
31,045
if you can get micron e-die crucial 2x8 ballistix kit, you can get up to %20-25 performance with tuned timings and 3466 mhz ram (majority of zen+ cpus seem to be capable of doing 3466 mhz!).

URBBtsq.png



these kits are really great, you can even easily oc them to 3600-3800 mhz later when you upgrade to a better cpu

but you might want to fall back 4 ghz on your cpu, because from what I've observed in my OC adventures, pushing 4.1 ghz on zen+ usually hurts ram overclock performance and I cant get my cpu to be stable at 4.1 ghz and 3466 in the same time! at 4 ghz though, all is fine and good. this will be enough for me for a time now, and i might consider a cheaper "potential" ryzen 5600, or not at all, becaus 3070 seems to get gpu bound with moderate rt settings, even at 1080p without dlss, so it's all good, for now (yours ise a 3080 but i guess you can still get very much gpu bound at 1440p. ray tracing is really still tough, despite these cards being one of the best at it)

Yup I'll need to look at getting some RAM too (preferably one where I can just enable xmp) as mine is just team vulcan 3000MHz CL16
 
Associate
Joined
31 Dec 2008
Posts
2,284
Just looked at few benchmarks on youtube and it seems to be game dependant even in vulkan and dx12.
For example Forza horizon 4 and Doom eternal do not suffer from nvidia driver overhead looking at cpu usage.
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Posts
47,642
Location
ARC-L1, Stanton System
What about a 1660TI at 1080P?



Watching Hardware Unboxed i was just thinking this, for those that don't think this is a problem, Core i7 3770K, R9 390 vs 1660TI.

You would not think a 3770K should be a problem for last gen lower mid range GPU's. The 1660TI is supposed to be a much faster GPU but because of the driver overhead.......

This is the biggest difference in the video, but even at best its still bad. this absolutely needs fixing, the slower R9 390 is twice as fast as the 1660TI because of the driver overhead, this is bad, really bad.

iSGyFTX.png
 
Permabanned
Joined
22 Jul 2020
Posts
2,898
Quote

"
Nvidia used hardware scheduler in the past, they went software one to take advantage of multithreading during dx11 times, where they got great advantage over AMD at that time. There is an old good video explaining it, i thing HW unboxed mentioned it in their video as well. Until you not maxing your cpu usage on ALL cores same time, this is not an big issue"


 
Caporegime
Joined
12 Jul 2007
Posts
40,566
Location
United Kingdom
Quote

"
Nvidia used hardware scheduler in the past, they went software one to take advantage of multithreading during dx11 times, where they got great advantage over AMD at that time. There is an old good video explaining it, i thing HW unboxed mentioned it in their video as well. Until you not maxing your cpu usage on ALL cores same time, this is not an big issue"


That was a good listen. :)
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,158
"Nvidia used hardware scheduler in the past, they went software one to take advantage of multithreading during dx11 times, where they got great advantage over AMD at that time. There is an old good video explaining it, i thing HW unboxed mentioned it in their video as well. Until you not maxing your cpu usage on ALL cores same time, this is not an big issue"

From my observations this approach seems to be somewhat sensitive to overall RAM latency/throughput - the quad channel w/ higher than mainstream frequency RAM and tuned timing on my setup seems to help a bit to offset it versus other platforms of the era which used dual channel but other wise perform the same or better overall - possibly ties into the above with Ryzen memory as well.

There are some advantages to doing it this way though it can hinder performance on older CPUs.
 
Back
Top Bottom