Uber lose battle in Supreme Court on drivers right

[Bald-Eagle22]

Following letter went out to all Uber drivers ealrier in the week - feel they will be back at court as its not paying them for being on standby .

New rights and protections, same flexibility

Dear

I want to personally thank all of you who responded to our nationwide consultation about your experience using Uber.

We have listened to what you told us, assessed the Supreme Court judgement, and have reached the clear conclusion that you should not have to compromise on flexibility in order to benefit from new rights and protections.




So from tomorrow, 17 March 2021, we commit that every trip you complete on Uber will include:

1. An additional payment of 12.07% of your earnings (after vehicle running costs) every two weeks, to reflect your right to paid holiday.
2. A guarantee that you will always earn at least the minimum wage (National Living Wage) of £8.72 per hour (after vehicle running costs) starting from the time you accept a trip on the app to the point at which the trip completes. This is a minimum amount, not a maximum, and you will continue to have the opportunity to earn more.
3. Uber will establish a pension scheme for all eligible drivers to be automatically enrolled into, with contributions from both Uber and drivers. This will take time to set up with the Pensions Regulator, but you will be notified once established and have the option to opt out if you choose.

The first payment for holiday pay and any necessary wage top ups will be paid on 3 May 2021. This will include payments dated from 17 March 2021.




We want to reassure you that the following will remain the same:

• You still have the flexibility and control over when and how you earn on the Uber app.
• Upfront pricing still applies and fares will still be calculated in the same way based on the time and distance rates.
• There are no changes to trip information or service fee.
• You remain self-employed for tax purposes.
• You still have access to benefits such as free insurance with AXA and education with The Open University through Uber Pro.
• You can still drive with other operators, but we aren’t aware of others making these important changes. We hope others will follow.

We will share details over the next few days on how to express interest in a compensation payment for historical trips if you are eligible. Please note that the changes mentioned above do not apply to Uber Fleet Partners and Uber Eats Couriers.




For more information, please visit our Frequently Asked Questions page on the link below. Please note that unfortunately we won’t be able to help at our Greenlight Hubs as we are following COVID guidelines at this time, so if you have any additional questions please visit the ‘Help’ section in your app.




Thank you,
Jamie Heywood
Uber’s General Manager for Northern and Eastern Europe

Read FAQ

 

[Surveyor]

Following letter went out to all Uber drivers ealrier in the week - feel they will be back at court as its not paying them for being on standby.

Are your drivers paid for being on standby?

 

[Greebo]

Are your drivers paid for being on standby?

Point is that as far as the law goes people who are employees and on standby, their standby time does count for the calculation of minimum wage.

Uber are trying to pull another fast one but will soon be back in court and will lose again.

Now that the sc have ruled that they are employees, the standard minimum wage law applies.

 

[Surveyor]

Point is that as far as the law goes people who are employees and on standby, their standby time does count for the calculation of minimum wage.

Uber are trying to pull another fast one but will soon be back in court and will lose again.

Now that the sc have ruled that they are employees, the standard minimum wage law applies.

I was enquiring if other taxi drivers are being paid for standy time.

 

[Bald-Eagle22]

Point is that as far as the law goes people who are employees and on standby, their standby time does count for the calculation of minimum wage.

Uber are trying to pull another fast one but will soon be back in court and will lose again.

Now that the sc have ruled that they are employees, the standard minimum wage law applies.

You got it in one Greebo , as I said yes I feel this will be back in court .

But to answer Surveyors question yes my drivers had been paid to be on standby , historical it’s been anything up to a 20% uplift on earnings if they have completed scheduled shifts. Although we have stopped any retention schemes awaiting this ruling , cant add much more to this .

I just can’t see how passenger rates are going to stay the same .

 

[dowie]

Point is that as far as the law goes people who are employees and on standby, their standby time does count for the calculation of minimum wage.

Uber are trying to pull another fast one but will soon be back in court and will lose again.

Now that the sc have ruled that they are employees, the standard minimum wage law applies.

Wonder if there is any risk of uber being sued for back pay - like if all the drivers could log their hours logged in and then entered a class action lawsuit or something... they could perhaps argue that from the time they've been "employees" then logging into the app ready to receive rides is time that they should have been paid at least min wage for and if the'yve dropped below that (which won't necessarily be the case) then they need back pay.

 

[Greebo]

Wonder if there is any risk of uber being sued for back pay - like if all the drivers could log their hours logged in and then entered a class action lawsuit or something... they could perhaps argue that from the time they've been "employees" then logging into the app ready to receive rides is time that they should have been paid at least min wage for and if the'yve dropped below that (which won't necessarily be the case) then they need back pay.

Already there is likely to be claims for years of holiday pay. I would imagine minimum wage claims will arise as well.

People who say this wont change the pricing is just wrong. The pension, holiday, NI stufff will have increased Uber's wage bill by 28%. Plus the minimum wage they are admitting to on actual journeys plus minimum wage on standby once they lose that case.

Could end up increasing staff costs by 50%.

Its the knock on affect now to other similar employees in the Gig economy now like Amazon drivers.

 

[muon]

Point is that as far as the law goes people who are employees and on standby, their standby time does count for the calculation of minimum wage.

Uber are trying to pull another fast one but will soon be back in court and will lose again.

Now that the sc have ruled that they are employees, the standard minimum wage law applies.

They have?

Might need a read of this.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status

They are workers who are contracted.

At no point have they become employees with an employment contract where they work hours specified in an employment contract.

 

[Greebo]

They have?

Might need a read of this.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status

Workers or employees...doesnt matter, minimum wage rules apply

 

[muon]

Workers or employees...doesnt matter, minimum wage rules apply

Yes it does matter.

Because it determines what the minimum wage applies over.

Uber drivers have no specified hours to work for which they earn minimum wage. They have no employment contract as employees.

They earn minimum wage (and holiday pay and pension) on each contract i.e. fare.

 

[muon]

Just to be clear this is what uber drivers are now:

Worker
A person is generally classed as a ‘worker’ if:

• they have a contract or other arrangement to do work or services personally for a reward (your contract doesn’t have to be written)
• their reward is for money or a benefit in kind, for example the promise of a contract or future work
• they only have a limited right to send someone else to do the work (subcontract)
• they have to turn up for work even if they don’t want to
• their employer has to have work for them to do as long as the contract or arrangement lasts
• they aren’t doing the work as part of their own limited company in an arrangement where the ‘employer’ is actually a customer or client

Each fare is a contract. They are not forced to work outside of each fare.

 

[Greebo]

Yes it does matter.

Because it determines what the minimum wage applies over.

Uber drivers have no specified hours to work for which they earn minimum wage. They have no employment contract as employees.

They earn minimum wage (and holiday pay and pension) on each contract i.e. fare.

So why are employment experts saying that Uber's interpretation is wrong and minimum wage includes standby time?

 

[Greebo]

Just to be clear this is what uber drivers are now:



Each fare is a contract. They are not forced to work outside of each fare.

But being on standby is not working then?

 

[muon]

So why are employment experts saying that Uber's interpretation is wrong and minimum wage includes standby time?

Because you are listening to only one side of the argument.

But being on standby is not working then?

Not if you can log off anytime you want. You don't agree to work an x hour contract with uber where you will have no choice but to work it entirely. If you did then you should be paid for the duration of the contract.

 

[Greebo]

Because you are listening to only one side of the argument.



Not if you can log off anytime you want. You don't agree to work an x hour contract with uber where you will have no choice but to work it entirely. If you did then you should be paid for the duration of the contract.

Fair enough then. I stand corrected.

 

[muon]

Fair enough then. I stand corrected.

So what the people you are listening to are claiming is that the contract starts when you log on and ends when you log off. However, uber doesn't agree with that I can see why.

If I show up to Sainsbury's on a zero hours contract and wait outside for a shift, should I be paid for waiting? No one asked me to wait, and I could stop waiting at any time.

 

[Greebo]

So what the people you are listening to are claiming is that the contract starts when you log on and ends when you log off. However, uber doesn't agree with that I can see why.

If I show up to Sainsbury's on a zero hours contract and wait outside for a shift, should I be paid for waiting? No one asked me to wait, and I could stop waiting at any time.

But if the only way you can get a shift at Sainsbury's is to wait outside otherwise you get no shifts then........................................................???????

 

[muon]

But if the only way you can get a shift at Sainsbury's is to wait outside otherwise you get no shifts then........................................................???????

But you don't have to go to Sainsbury's to get a shift.

Uber will argue you being in your car is your own time.

If I was uber I'd make multiple fares show up to all drivers. First one to select it gets it.

You don't want it, carry on with whatever you were doing. That way they don't have to penalise drivers who reject fares (don't know if they do this anymore).

 

[Hotwired]

I dunno what you lot are on about as if this is an unprecedented move.

Seattle got stuck in last year and demanded Uber (and everyone else) pay the drivers enough so that including time without a passenger (assumed at 50% time) they make minimum wage for the hours on the clock.

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/uber-...sponse-seattles-new-minimum-wage-law-drivers/

 

[muon]

I dunno what you lot are on about as if this is an unprecedented move.

Seattle got stuck in last year and demanded Uber (and everyone else) pay the drivers enough so that including time without a passenger (assumed at 50% time) they make minimum wage for the hours on the clock.

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/uber-...sponse-seattles-new-minimum-wage-law-drivers/

It varies in the US.

In California they decided the opposite.

I agree it probably isn't unprecedented.