How reliable are ceramic brakes

[theone8181]

I've got this crazy notion of upgrading to the old model panamera soon. I'm looking at the turbo s (because why not). They come with pccbs as standard, but wasn't sure how well they hold up for normal road use. I've got a vague recollection of someone saying they were a tad scary when cold and wet.

 

[Greebo]

Yep until warmed up they have diminished breaking. Several people have almost been caught out on cold wet mornings.

Lots of people of forums with CCBs say in the rain you need to keep dabbing the brakes every now and then to keep them dry and warm otherwise you wont fair well if you need to stop suddenly.

My old boss had them on his Aston Martin Vanquish and said they were lethal on cold wet days. He was forever complaining to AM about how bad the brakes were.

 

[sovietspybob]

Do they have issues with pad deposits when only used on the road too?

I thought i remembered seeing they don't like light use, they're really meant for full on track use.

 

[kindai]

I've got a vague recollection of someone saying they were a tad scary when cold and wet.

Yup, just be aware of if your car has monitored brakes or not, the AV for example will gently apply the brakes to keep them at temperature while cruising ready for when the driver needs to stop. The GTR didnt, so on cold wet days you need to just keep dabbing them to keep them warm otherwise it can be very brown trouser. It will also depend on the pad compound, the more track focused it is the longer it will take to warm up and grip, so check with the dealer which pads you have.

My old boss had them on his Aston Martin Vanquish and said they were lethal on cold wet days. He was forever complaining to AM about how bad the brakes were.

He probably didnt know how to drive the car then.

Do they have issues with pad deposits when only used on the road too?

No. Correctly wearing in a set of CCX brakes involves getting them upto very high temps to force the transference of pad material onto the disc. Normal road use will get nowhere near hot enough.

 

[Will Gill]

They are fairly useless in the wet until you clear the water off them, I find myself dabbing them when the windscreen wipers are going.

That issue aside they are fearsome anchors, and the lack of brake dust is simply sublime.

 

[Nasher]

They are meant for high temperatures. A lot of people fit standard disks instead for road use.

Another issue with anything ceramic or carbon is if it fails, it explodes violently

Its a shame MMC brakes never took off. They would be perfect for EVs too.

 

[Greebo]

He probably didnt know how to drive the car then.


.

I would agree with you there. How he never had an accident in the decades driving supercars I will never know. Or lose his licence.

I was once sat in the passenger seat doing 150mph down the M1 when somebody pulled out into the fast lane and we had to go from 150mph to 70mph in a very short amount of time and brakes were howling in protest.

 

[Simon]

They are meant for high temperatures. A lot of people fit standard disks instead for road use.

Another issue with anything ceramic or carbon is if it fails, it explodes violently

Its a shame MMC brakes never took off. They would be perfect for EVs too.

Why would they be perfect? EVs don't even need brakes you can pull 0.3-0.4g on regen alone, even a relatively spirited drive brake disks can be cool to the touch

I remember Gibbo preferring Steel disks for track as ceramics can delaminate. The main benefit is weight versus huge steel rotors which helps with ride and handling on the road. The cost due to how they made is pretty ridiculous so not sure how you can expect mainstream adoption?

 

[Jonnycoupe]

MMC were the light brakes on the first Elises.

 

[Nasher]

Yep and they last the life of the car, dont corrode either.

 

[NathWraith]

Never had issues with my NSX. Brake by wire in that so feel in general is weird. Stopped well.

 

[RSR]

I've had zero issues with the PCCB's on mine, 6 years on they they are still like new with only 25% of pad wear with them. The older generations of PCCB's did have some issue but the current ones are pretty flawless.

Depending on the model (997,991,992) of the Turbo S they all come with PCCBs as a OE fit.

 

[Housey]

They were incredible on my R8 when up to temp and I never had any issues in the wet or calling on them at a time of need and they not hauling me to a halt incredibly well.

On one day at an Asda charity thing at Brunters I used them stop me from up around 170mph 25-30 times in a few hours and never found them wanting. Did a set of pads in 25k miles but discs would go to 60k I feel before needing replacing, less if you don’t use them as hard as I did road and track. Fluid was the issue, discs and pads never faded.

Current car it’s too short a time to give a full verdict but so far epic and confidence inspiring. The early days Ceramics on 911’s around 2005 we prone to catching stones and getting wrecked and some other issues but current generation are much better.

Last longer, stop better and create hardly any mess. Just expensive and need heat to be at their best but unlike steal the more heat the better they stop.

 

[theone8181]

Thanks for the response guys. I would probably run one under a warranty but I'm fairly that wouldn't cover 'consumables' like discs so thought I'd ask.

 

[RSR]

No, they are not covered under warranty unless there is a fault with the disk.

The replacement disk cost is around £3800~ and the pads are around £350 ~ but that's on mine, as I got a replacement quote before adding it as a option on my car.

 

[Housey]

Pads were £1360 all around on the R8 so not too crazy

 

[Rotty]

only issue I have with mine is that when I drive the merc (normal brakes) it's almost like they aren't working


/edit just realised I haven't driven it in the wet yet