Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

[Angilion]

Most superior race?

You ok hun? You’ve gone a little off the rails with your posting recently.

There's nothing "off the rails" about acknowledging that people who are racist believe in a hierarchy of races. It's not even slightly weird to acknowledge that fact. Of course racist people are racist. That's what racism is.

Or are you trying to wrongly portray me as racist using the tried and tested technique of pretending that someone who acknowledges the existence of a position agrees with that position even when they're opposing it?

 

[Pestilence]

Then any religious terrorism can come under far right due to its fundamentalist right wing restrictive connotations

I don't get this at all, sorry. Have to comment, as someone with much-missed dead on both sides of the NI conflict.

Are you saying left-wing terrorism *must* therefore be right wing because the left doesn't "do" fundamentalism or authoritarian violence?

 

[Angilion]

The guy who said he would die, who died. Was crying wolf. Ok.

That's a key part of the original story of "the boy who cried wolf". It's the moral of the story.

Quick summary of the story:

A boy's job was to watch out for wolves that were close enough to threaten the village's sheep. If he saw a wolf, he was to shout "wolf!" so that the available men of the village would hear him and run up to drive the wolves off.
He repeatedly cried wolf when he hadn't seen a wolf.
Eventually, he did see a wolf and when he cried wolf people didn't believe him because of the times he'd been lying before.

 

[Pestilence]

Simple experiment, lay on the floor with your head slightly to the side and press your hand into the back of your neck until you feel pressure on the larynx, now try shouting. Yeah didn't go well did it.

This is close to irrelevant. "You can talk fine" isn't a measured response from someone in a position of assumed care (felon or not) when the other person expresses cardiac distress.

It's made doubly negligent when you bring up the point of Floyd saying he couldn't breathe *before* the neck restraint.

"Oh, okay, this guy's expressing cardiac distress. Might have trouble breathing. I'll just restrict his air way and blood flow."

No, I'm not saying he needs to go down for murder, but he was grossly negligent in the line of duty at the very least. That much is clear to anyone.

 

[Twinz]

Watch the bodycam footage, he pushed his way out of the car from the other side as the officers were trying to get him in from both sides, he was literally shouting he couldn't breath the moment he got near the doors of the police car, talk about crying wolf

Wait, he was claiming that he could not breathe before anyone did anything to his neck?

This seems like important information.

Either something else caused his breathing issues, or he was lying.

How is this not headline news?

 

[Raikiri]

That's a key part of the original story of "the boy who cried wolf". It's the moral of the story.

Quick summary of the story:

A boy's job was to watch out for wolves that were close enough to threaten the village's sheep. If he saw a wolf, he was to shout "wolf!" so that the available men of the village would hear him and run up to drive the wolves off.
He repeatedly cried wolf when he hadn't seen a wolf.
Eventually, he did see a wolf and when he cried wolf people didn't believe him because of the times he'd been lying before.

That story didn't happen over a 20 minute period though. You'd have a point if he had repeatedly been arrested and claimed he was going to die and didn't, but that's not the case.

 

[Angilion]

I don't get this at all, sorry. Have to comment, as someone with much-missed dead on both sides of the NI conflict.

Are you saying left-wing terrorism *must* therefore be right wing because the left doesn't "do" fundamentalism or authoritarian violence?

It's a result of belief in the over-simplification of an over-simplification that is the "left or right" belief.

Premise: There are only two political positions and each one covers everything. Always left in everything or always right in everything are only possibilities.
Premise: Left is good, right is evil.

Conclusion: Everything bad is right wing.

It has nothing to do with reality.

 

[Pestilence]

It's a result of belief in the over-simplification of an over-simplification that is the "left or right" belief.

Premise: There are only two political positions and each one covers everything. Always left in everything or always right in everything are only possibilities.
Premise: Left is good, right is evil.

Conclusion: Everything bad is right wing.

It has nothing to do with reality.

I mean, I'm happy to wait for his explanation but it looks like he's a walking poster child for the horseshoe theory. Just without knowing it.

 

[Skunkworks]

Wait, he was claiming that he could not breathe before anyone did anything to his neck?

This seems like important information.

Either something else caused his breathing issues, or he was lying.

How is this not headline news?

Full vid and some timestamps.

For those that haven't seen the full bodycam footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEGGLu_fNU

Some timestamps:

05:46 Officer asks if GF if he's "on something" and mentions mouth foam a couple of seconds later.
06:23 GF starts resisting and claims to be claustrophobic.
08:16 GF says "Imma die here".
08:54 GF's first mention of breathing.
09:03 GF says "I'll get on the ground, anything."
09:43 GF's first mention of "I can't breathe".
09:54 GF pushes himslf out of the back seat and says "I wanna lay on the ground".
10:15 GF before being placed on the ground claims he can't breathe. Bystander tells him to "just get in the car".
10:50 GF placed on the ground.
11:16 GF asks for his "momma".
12:05 Officer says "EMS are on the way".
13:22 GF says "I'm about to die".
13:28 Officer says "He's got to be on something".
13:48 Officer mentions PCP and "shaking of the eyes".
14:10 GF asks for water.
15:26 Officer says "move him on his side?"
15:36 GF's last mention of "I can't breathe".
16:24 Officer says "I think he's passing out". GF appears unconscious from this point.
19:13 Officers talking to EMS.
20:23 GF placed on gurney.
22:35 Officers question the other occupants of GF's car.

There's nothing racial, and the cops are very patient. The footage, toxicology report, plus the knee technique being in the literal training manual means, if fair, this is an open-and-shut case.

 

[Angilion]

That story didn't happen over a 20 minute period though. You'd have a point if he had repeatedly been arrested and claimed he was going to die and didn't, but that's not the case.

Except that it is. Which is part of the reason why the videos of previous arrests showing that should be admissable in court.

But even if you were right, the timescale involved doesn't change the point of the story of the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Angilion]

Wait, he was claiming that he could not breathe before anyone did anything to his neck?

This seems like important information.

Either something else caused his breathing issues, or he was lying.

How is this not headline news?

Because "news" has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with propaganda. The purpose of "news" isn't to inform people of the truth. It's to get views and/or to follow and strengthen trends in order to continue getting views.

 

[MadMossy]

This is close to irrelevant. "You can talk fine" isn't a measured response from someone in a position of assumed care (felon or not) when the other person expresses cardiac distress.

It's made doubly negligent when you bring up the point of Floyd saying he couldn't breathe *before* the neck restraint.

"Oh, okay, this guy's expressing cardiac distress. Might have trouble breathing. I'll just restrict his air way and blood flow."

No, I'm not saying he needs to go down for murder, but he was grossly negligent in the line of duty at the very least. That much is clear to anyone.

In the history of crime have you never known of a criminal that hasn't lied about something. I'm sure those officers hear outright lies and fabrications everyday when a criminal is trying to evade or get out of something. GF was claiming he had covid for several minutes as well as everything else he was claiming.

 

[Twinz]

Full vid and some timestamps.

I was hoping someone with a torch or pitchfork would address this question as they appear to be unaware of this information.

So I ask again:

If he was claiming that he could not breathe before anyone did anything to his neck, Either something else caused his breathing issues, or he was lying.

Why are the pitchfork crowd ignoring this?

 

[Pestilence]

In the history of crime have you never known of a criminal that hasn't lied about something. I'm sure those officers hear outright lies and fabrications everyday when a criminal is trying to evade or get out of something. GF was claiming he had covid for several minutes as well as everything else he was claiming.

Again, totally irrelevant. The duty of care matters. Police family, dude. I've heard it all (including hilarious stories from the other side, such as somebody's partner having a Chinese meal thrown in their face so that the other officer thought they'd been burned with oil when they saw the other's greasy, screaming face... and thus went absolutely mental on the sus, lol).

If someone claims cardiac distress, AND says they want to lay on the ground, you don't lay them on their FRONT. I honestly hate to be condescending on this forum but really mate. Sit back, take a nice big breath, and feel how your body expands. It doesn't go backward.

Very basic training should tell you this. It's in the video. The other officer asks if they should move him to his side. Yes. Yes they should have.

It was VERY likely he was already a goner from the drugs, but they did precisely NOTHING to help that, even as he continued to claim distress. That's why I don't ascribe to the "Chauvin must burn, murderer!" narrative, but Christ those cops didn't do it with any measure of care for their subjects at all. And remember -- even the felons deserve as much respect as can be afforded. He isn't Judge Dredd.

 

[Skunkworks]

Why are the pitchfork crowd ignoring this?

I get the feeling they're the people that let the TV do all their thinking.

 

[MadMossy]

snip

Yeah they do have a duty of care, not just for the criminal but also their fellow colleagues and the public around them. With the benefit of hindsight everyone can agree they should have done this, that or something else. That's not always going to happen when your in the thick of it, I'm sure even the elite of the elite military have moments they think they should have done differently in hindsight.

 

[Minusorange]

Why are the pitchfork crowd ignoring this?

Because they let emotion overrule rational thought

 

[iamtheoneneo]

GF was claiming he had covid for several minutes as well as everything else he was claiming.

Just on this point. He DID in fact have Covid on the 3 April and BOTH autopsy's revealed that it was still in his system at the time of death.

 

[hurfdurf]

I was hoping someone with a torch or pitchfork would address this question as they appear to be unaware of this information.

So I ask again:

If he was claiming that he could not breathe before anyone did anything to his neck, Either something else caused his breathing issues, or he was lying.

Why are the pitchfork crowd ignoring this?

If someone tells your they can’t breath, and they are in your custody and you have a responsibility for them, do you think restraining them with a knee to the neck and they then die, and you haven’t done basic things to assist them, why do you feel at what point they told you they were having difficulty breathing matters?

 

[Twinz]

If someone tells your they can’t breath, and they are in your custody and you have a responsibility for them, do you think restraining them with a knee to the neck and they then die, and you haven’t done basic things to assist them, why do you feel at what point they told you they were having difficulty breathing matters?

So you think he was telling the truth and had trouble breathing BEFORE anyone did anything to his neck?