Zen FTTP lower than advertised speeds

[KPC]

I have a site in Cornwall I look after who recently upgraded to Zen FTTP (were on FTTC) and took the 900Mbps package. From activation they don't achieve more than 500-600Mbps at best.

I've tested this from a couple of machines directly connected to the Openreach ONT and dialling a PPPoE connection with the same low speeds. After a few calls to Zen they agreed there must be an issue locally as everything was configured correctly at their end, so they arranged an Openreach engineer visit for a pm appointment (1pm-6pm).

I arranged to be on site that day and busied myself elsewhere in the morning but as is typical with Openreach an engineer turned up at around 11.30, ran some tests and told the receptionist that those speeds are the most they will get, then buggered off. I wasn't happy as I wanted to be there so he could explain exactly why this was the case. We escalated this with Zen who arranged for another visit. This happened this morning (I wasn't there) with the same result ("What you see is what you get" with no real explanation or solution).

These low speeds happen whatever time a test is ran and the site is the first in the area to get FTTP (I think they had to pay a fortune to get the line, offset with a grant) so I don't think this can be normal contention. The site really is in the sticks, the small exchange serves around 700 properties.

I suspect there could be a limit on an SVLAN into the exchange but the engineer told the customer today that there is no ability for BTW to dial it up. The customer is thinking of just getting a second FTTP and load balancing the connections but I'm thinking until we understand what the issue is, they risk only get a total of 500-600Mbps between the two connections.

Zen haven't been very proactive with this so far so it's left a bad taste and I'm wondering if the customer were to cut ties and go with BT these speeds might magically improve. OTOH I recently took out Zen's 300/49 package at home and it's generally faster than advertised.

Does anyone with more knowledge know what could be causing this so we can poke Zen with some ideas?

 

[ChrisD.]

@Housey had similar issues, explained in this thread:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/threads/fttp-thoughts.18814496/page-4

 

[KPC]

@Housey had similar issues, explained in this thread:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/forums/threads/fttp-thoughts.18814496/page-4

Interesting read, thank you. Although that poster's speeds were shockingly bad and I doubt the even the most cavalier Openreach tech would have told them to suck it up.

 

[e36Adz]

Check the EE/BT Full Fibre thread next to this one. I've been getting 600 at most as well on a 900 package and after many phone calls and several engineer visits, EE have just offered me a £10 monthly discount as I'm essentially only getting a maximum 2/3 of what I signed up for. Its plenty fast enough for me so I've left it at that but expect lots of back and forth between BT and Zen whilst each one tries pinning the cause of the fault on the other.

 

[KPC]

Check the EE/BT Full Fibre thread next to this one. I've been getting 600 at most as well on a 900 package and after many phone calls and several engineer visits, EE have just offered me a £10 monthly discount as I'm essentially only getting a maximum 2/3 of what I signed up for. Its plenty fast enough for me so I've left it at that but expect lots of back and forth between BT and Zen whilst each one tries pinning the cause of the fault on the other.

Thanks. Reading both threads still makes me feel that BT Wholesale are the bottleneck in both cases. It just seems neither EE nor Openreach know how to escalate the issue or aren't inclined to.

It's kind of understandable in copper faults, where Openreach are maintaining an ageing copper network, what with the cost of replacing degrading cables and with fibre being rolled out anyway. It's really not good enough to be delivering a brand new fibre network and telling customers these faults can't be resolved.

 

[WJA96]

I’m on the 900/110 package but my minimum guaranteed line speed was only ever 550Mbps. As it happens I get the full speed and it’s the uplink that is really useful. What is the customer doing that they need the full 900Mbps? That’s a huge amount of download bandwidth.

 

[KPC]

I’m on the 900/110 package but my minimum guaranteed line speed was only ever 550Mbps. As it happens I get the full speed and it’s the uplink that is really useful. What is the customer doing that they need the full 900Mbps? That’s a huge amount of download bandwidth.

Her business is a holiday park with over 50 x 2-3 bed lodges. We've installed WiFi in every lodge. Yes I know people should be doing better things when they're on holiday but when it's dire weather, that FTTP is going to be saturated easily and if she's been sold 900 she should be getting that right now.

 

[Caged]

Just walk away in the cooling off period and move to TalkTalk Business, at least then you will know for sure if there's a problem with the service or if it's just Zen.

 

[KPC]

Just walk away in the cooling off period and move to TalkTalk Business, at least then you will know for sure if there's a problem with the service or if it's just Zen.

She was keen to stick with Zen because they were great all the while she had her DSLs with them (and her home service I believe) but I tend to agree, at least the threat of leaving might push them to escalate the issue to more specialised techs.

 

[Unseen]

Are people seriously complaining about 600Mbps? Us stuck on FTTC lines have been paying a fortune for crap speeds for years. If I was getting 600Mbps consistently I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

 

[Delta3D]

Are people seriously complaining about 600Mbps? Us stuck on FTTC lines have been paying a fortune for crap speeds for years. If I was getting 600Mbps consistently I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

I think it's a bit different when at home. At a site with 50x 2-3 bed lodges as OP mentions 600mbps isn't going to go as far as you'd expect especially if people start streaming things like Netflix/YouTube.

 

[ChrisD.]

Are people seriously complaining about 600Mbps? Us stuck on FTTC lines have been paying a fortune for crap speeds for years. If I was getting 600Mbps consistently I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

Even if you paid for up to 900 Mbps? I certainly would be complaining if I could never reach that speed over full fibre.

 

[Caged]

Are people seriously complaining about 600Mbps? Us stuck on FTTC lines have been paying a fortune for crap speeds for years. If I was getting 600Mbps consistently I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

If I bought a service that was advertised as 900Mbps average I would like to be able to get that average, yes.

 

[the-evaluator]

Are people seriously complaining about 600Mbps?

Yes, and rightly so.

Us stuck on FTTC lines have been paying a fortune for crap speeds for years.

Seems unlikely that you've been paying a fortune.

If I was getting 600Mbps consistently I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

Why not? If you're only getting 2/3 of the advertised speed then you should complain.

 

[WJA96]

Her business is a holiday park with over 50 x 2-3 bed lodges. We've installed WiFi in every lodge. Yes I know people should be doing better things when they're on holiday but when it's dire weather, that FTTP is going to be saturated easily and if she's been sold 900 she should be getting that right now.

What’s the minimum guaranteed line speed? As I stated above, that's what they're obliged to supply under the OFCOM CoP.

This is what the BT line checker is telling me about my own address

And that says 900Mbps headline speed, but the guarantee is 450Mbps. Half the headline speed. On that basis, BT would not allow the OP to terminate their contract because they were well above the 'Stay Fast' guarantee figure.

 

[KPC]

What’s the minimum guaranteed line speed? As I stated above, that's what they're obliged to supply under the OFCOM CoP.

This is what the BT line checker is telling me about my own address

And that says 900Mbps headline speed, but the guarantee is 450Mbps. Half the headline speed. On that basis, BT would not allow the OP to terminate their contract because they were well above the 'Stay Fast' guarantee figure.

Zen word things differently.



That's 900Mbps average speed and 500Mbps average is significantly below their estimate I'd say. In a recent call they said they could reduce the monthlies to reflect the service not being up to expectations. We haven't gone down the end-contract route yet.

 

[WJA96]

Indeed, I’m a Zen customer myself on some sites but the point is that if they’ve signed up to the OFCOM CoP (and they have) they should have quoted you a minimum speed. It’s in the order/contract document from memory.

BT aren’t setting the minimum line speed at 50% of the headline speed as a guess. They must know something about the service that makes them think customers may not consistently get the full 900Mbps or they’d have set that minimum speed higher.

And all the lines are the same - Openreach installed.

 

[KPC]

Indeed, I’m a Zen customer myself on some sites but the point is that if they’ve signed up to the OFCOM CoP (and they have) they should have quoted you a minimum speed. It’s in the order/contract document from memory.

BT aren’t setting the minimum line speed at 50% of the headline speed as a guess. They must know something about the service that makes them think customers may not consistently get the full 900Mbps or they’d have set that minimum speed higher.

And all the lines are the same - Openreach installed.

I'll get her to check that, thanks. But I've a feeling the fact they are offering discounts means they know they can't hold her to the contract.

The reason customers might not always get full speed would be contention. Openreach are currently using GPON, 2.488Gbps down and 1.244Gbps up. But that gets split up to 32 ways locally. I guess BT are banking on not having a splitter full of 900Mbps customers hosing their pipes all the time, it'll be interesting to see what happens then as their guaranteed 450Mbps would drop through the floor (I'd guess upgrading to a faster PON like XGS).

But local contention isn't the issue as she's the only person on the exchange to get fibre (was FTTPoD).

 

[Housey]

I am now running 900 from Zen and get 900 at the router but not through WiFi.

 

[johnno93]

I am now running 900 from Zen and get 900 at the router but not through WiFi.

You won't get 900Mb over Wifi unless you get an expensive WiFi 6 router and have a WiFi 6 device. Most Wifi 5 devices will probably get around 400Mb in good conditions.