Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'

Tony Edwards · 10 Apr 2021 at 15:13

Zatoichi.uK said:
You clearly see everything through the lens of race and people have tried repeatedly to reason with you so I won't waste any more of my time.

I dont clearly see everything through the lens of race and no one has tried to reason with me on here. What has happened is people have tried to shut me down is all.

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 15:30

Tony Edwards said:
Thats not really the point is it. A stopped clock is right twice a day

It's exactly the point.

If any of the recommendations have worth, then they are a useful tool. Why wouldn't you want them implemented?

Writing off the entire report is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Tony Edwards · 10 Apr 2021 at 15:40

potatolord said:
It's exactly the point.

If any of the recommendations have worth, then they are a useful tool. Why wouldn't you want them implemented?

Writing off the entire report is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Do I think its as bad as some are making out? No. Do I think its as good or clear as some people are making out? Certainly not.

Its not about implementing some parts of it, there have already been loads of reports with recommendations that havent been implemented. So that should really answer that. The report wasnt about implementing recommendations it was meant to be a report into the subject of race and racial disparities in the UK. The report was just such a wasted opportunity.

There is a fairly good 'Alternative Race Report' by Ash Sarkar that I cant link to due to swearing.

Hagar · 10 Apr 2021 at 16:35

Tony Edwards said:
Do I think its as bad as some are making out? No. Do I think its as good or clear as some people are making out? Certainly not.

Its not about implementing some parts of it, there have already been loads of reports with recommendations that havent been implemented. So that should really answer that. The report wasnt about implementing recommendations it was meant to be a report into the subject of race and racial disparities in the UK. The report was just such a wasted opportunity.

There is a fairly good 'Alternative Race Report' by Ash Sarkar that I cant link to due to swearing.

What does it say? That the UK is systematically racist. Uniquely amongst all the nation's of the world we should recognise our sins of colonialism and slavery. More than we do already. Why do all races queue to come and live here if this is such a **** racist swamp.?

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 16:46

Tony Edwards said:
Do I think its as bad as some are making out? No. Do I think its as good or clear as some people are making out? Certainly not.

Its not about implementing some parts of it, there have already been loads of reports with recommendations that havent been implemented. So that should really answer that. The report wasnt about implementing recommendations it was meant to be a report into the subject of race and racial disparities in the UK. The report was just such a wasted opportunity.

There is a fairly good 'Alternative Race Report' by Ash Sarkar that I cant link to due to swearing.

I disagree- if any of those recommendations are valid, you should recognise that and be pushing for them to be implemented. It's the counsel of inertia and despair to take the view that because nothing has been done before, nothing can be done now.

The report was pretty good at identifying disparities, and the findings were pretty clear. It really shouldn't have been too surprising for anyone to find that the picture is more complicated than "X always do badly, at everything".

Is the "Alternative Race Report" a video? If so, I've just watched it. It's not a report- it's the opinions of Ash Sarkar, some clips from a children's comedy show and selected screenshots of news headlines with no context. It's not even an "alternative"- just an attack piece on the actual report. In my opinion, it is worthless chit-chat.

Please don't take the above as a personal attack on you. I think your heart's in the right place, for what that's worth.

Skunkworks · 10 Apr 2021 at 17:20

Stumble Bum said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-complain-BLM-founder-buys-1-4M-LA-home.html

They need to keep the narrative going... these houses' bills don't pay themselves.

Stated preference: Black Lives Matter!

Revealed preference: Moves to the whitest part of Whitey McWhiteville.

Tony Edwards · 10 Apr 2021 at 17:20

potatolord said:
The report was pretty good at identifying disparities, and the findings were pretty clear. It really shouldn't have been too surprising for anyone to find that the picture is more complicated than "X always do badly, at everything".

Has it restored or helped towards racial harmony or has it made things slightly worse? Surely thats the most important question.

What recommendations do you think I should be pushing to be implented and why should I be the one pushing for them to be implemented? Surely it is for people like you and supporters of the report to be pushing for. Dont take this the wrong way but mostly all Ive heard is people saying people should stop complaining and look in themself

More money for poor areas, schools, health services and public services? Ive been calling for that for years already.

Im not sure if I have ever seen anyone in this thread that stands by the report pull up running man for some of his posts or Nasher or even the people that proudly openly admit to being racist. The only people that seem to get pulled out are those that not toeing the GD party lines.

Poor old libertarian Dolph who by most standards is what a lot of people in GD seem to declare their political leanings as being got harrassed out of this thread.

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 17:46

Tony Edwards said:
Has it restored or helped towards racial harmony or has it made things slightly worse? Surely thats the most important question.

What recommendations do you think I should be pushing to be implented and why should I be the one pushing for them to be implemented? Surely it is for people like you and supporters of the report to be pushing for. Dont take this the wrong way but mostly all Ive heard is people saying people should stop complaining and look in themself

More money for poor areas, schools, health services and public services? Ive been calling for that for years already.

Im not sure if I have ever seen anyone in this thread that stands by the report pull up running man for some of his posts or Nasher or even the people that proudly openly admit to being racist. The only people that seem to get pulled out are those that not toeing the GD party lines.

Poor old libertarian Dolph who by most standards is what a lot of people in GD seem to declare their political leanings as being got harrassed out of this thread.

I think that's the wrong question. Expecting a report to "restore" racial harmony which never existed is unrealistic. I'm not sure the report ever had so grand an ambition as to bring racial harmony- but to examine whether disparities existed and to make recommendations to address those it found. I thought it did a decent job of that- not perfect, but I don't expect perfection.

The official report is long, so I'll just list the recommendations I thought were decent and you can look them up to save space.
1,2,5,6,7,9,10,11 (big one!),12,14,18,19,21,22,23.

Yeah, I do get your point about lacking power to make things happen. I've pointed out a few of those recommendations to my senior management. That's all I can do, really. But I do try.

I think I have pushed back against some of your regular oppos on a few occasions! I'll agree with anyone who makes a fair point, and will listen to people who don't- up to a point. I'm an equal opportunities kinda guy...

FoxEye · 10 Apr 2021 at 18:14

What the heck is a "minoritised community"?

Surely they're just making words up at this point.

"The challenges faced by minoritised communities." Always unspecified difficulties, challenges. Always "racism" the root cause. And always outcomes the presented "evidence".

Unwanted outcomes -> therefore unique (external) difficulties -> therefore racism. That is the entire train of thought, isn't it.

Tony Edwards · 10 Apr 2021 at 18:25

potatolord said:
Expecting a report to "restore" racial harmony which never existed is unrealistic.

Forget the restore part because we are so far away from that as a country and populace. I certainly wouldnt have expected its purpose was to make things worse if it was a learning exercise. Unless it was just a deliberate 'culture war' excercise. All it has really done is fan the flames in my eyes but I think that is mostly a left/right issue for the Tories.

Ill be honest race isnt really an issue despite how it may look that I am that interested in as a conversation. The misunderstanding of the issues towards racism some people have just dissappoint me is all, I dont really care about race but racism gets on my ****, its childish and spitefull/hatefull. Not you personaly but most race discussion fall into the 'banter' type catagory that I dont like.

I certainly dont have the answers as to how to fix it, to me it shouldnt be an issue.

Racism had slowly become something that people didnt show publicly but over the last 10+ years it has become something that people feel happy to show their true feelings and an issue for a lot of people that see themself as English and think/say you have to be white to be English while personaly I see all my friends that were born here as English.

If someone has a Scottish accent and was born there, as far as Im concerned they are Scottish. Ill even accept them not having a Scottish accent.

Its not about being colour blind or what ever term some people want to call it. Its just shouldnt be an issue or need to be something people discuss. Its as barmy to me as the 'ginger hair' thing.

RDM · 10 Apr 2021 at 18:36

I am going to hazard a guess that most people arguing about the report in this thread haven't actually read the report.

At 250+ pages, it isn't really a surprise, I haven't either. Hence I don't really have an opinion on it. Also, I am white, not racist and not in a position to do anything so it isn't really directed at me.

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 19:23

RDM said:
I am going to hazard a guess that most people arguing about the report in this thread haven't actually read the report.

At 250+ pages, it isn't really a surprise, I haven't either. Hence I don't really have an opinion on it. Also, I am white, not racist and not in a position to do anything so it isn't really directed at me.

I'd recommend having a quick look. The section on stop and search does a good job of explaining why the figures look as they do. It is, as usual, a lot more complex than just saying "42".

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 19:30

Tony Edwards said:
Forget the restore part because we are so far away from that as a country and populace. I certainly wouldnt have expected its purpose was to make things worse if it was a learning exercise. Unless it was just a deliberate 'culture war' excercise. All it has really done is fan the flames in my eyes but I think that is mostly a left/right issue for the Tories.

Ill be honest race isnt really an issue despite how it may look that I am that interested in as a conversation. The misunderstanding of the issues towards racism some people have just dissappoint me is all, I dont really care about race but racism gets on my ****, its childish and spitefull/hatefull. Not you personaly but most race discussion fall into the 'banter' type catagory that I dont like.

I certainly dont have the answers as to how to fix it, to me it shouldnt be an issue.
...
If someone has a Scottish accent and was born there, as far as Im concerned they are Scottish. Ill even accept them not having a Scottish accent.

Its not about being colour blind or what ever term some people want to call it. Its just shouldnt be an issue or need to be something people discuss. Its as barmy to me as the 'ginger hair' thing.

I think a lot of the "fanning flames" has been done by those seeking to discredit the report, without them addressing the recommendations or findings. I just think a lot if that has been unhelpful, negative and destructive.

I try to treat people as fairly as I can, unless they give me a reason not to. It just makes my life easier.

The real dilemma for people who dislike people with red hair, is when the ginger people go bald. Does that redeem them? It's a real conundrum.

Tony Edwards · 10 Apr 2021 at 19:34

potatolord said:
The real dilemma for people who dislike people with red hair, is when the ginger people go bald. Does that redeem them? It's a real conundrum.

I hate to sound gingerist but the freckles always give them away.

(I have no idea if all people with ginger hair have freckles)

potatolord · 10 Apr 2021 at 22:10

Tony Edwards said:
I hate to sound gingerist but the freckles always give them away.

(I have no idea if all people with ginger hair have freckles)

Lol, I think we have killed this thread with politeness.

mjt · 11 Apr 2021 at 16:58

I’ll just leave this here...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rote-independent-report-on-race-experts-claim

Dolph · 11 Apr 2021 at 17:19

mjt said:
I’ll just leave this here...
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rote-independent-report-on-race-experts-claim

Shocking if true, and totally undermines both the report and the experts.

Tony Edwards · 11 Apr 2021 at 17:29

Dolph said:
Shocking if true, and totally undermines both the report and the experts.

Im not sure if you are joking or not?

There was a rumor/theory that this was intended to be out before the May elections to garner support for the Tories.

Dolph · 11 Apr 2021 at 17:34

Tony Edwards said:
Im not sure if you are joking or not?

I'd have expected the experts to whistleblow on this immediately if they genuinely thought this, not nearly a month later.

A month later suggests a more calculated effort to distance themselves from it, rather than an actual objection to the representation of the contribution.

Tony Edwards · 11 Apr 2021 at 17:37

Dolph said:
I'd have expected the experts to whistleblow on this immediately if they genuinely thought this, not nearly a month later.

A month later suggests a more calculated effort to distance themselves from it, rather than an actual objection to the representation of the contribution.

But they did reject it as soon as it came out. The weird thing is even Boris sort of tried to distance himself from it.