Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

PlacidCasual · 21 Apr 2021 at 13:48

My surprise for the 2nd degree murder stems from the beyond all reasonable doubt aspect on two counts, if the knee was on the shoulder (or even neck) and caused no harm how can it be felony assault? The video looks conclusive but it seemed like the defense presented doubt even the Police chief accepted the knee was on the shoulder didn't he and no damage was found supporting assault from my limited recollection of the autopsies. If the cause of death is not as a consequence of the the assault (accepting it takes place) but actually other causes I assume it can't be 2nd degree murder, here the doubt comes from the fact he was on drugs, had poor health and was suffering the symptoms prior to the "assault".

I don't think Floyd deserved to die I think Chauvin acted atrociously and surely was negligent but 2nd degree murder unintentional as beyond all reasonable doubt when it seemed like there was some very reasonable doubt was surprising. As I've said earlier it wouldn't surprise me if no juror was brave enough to voice those doubts.

Hotwired · 21 Apr 2021 at 13:56

dowie said:
I wonder what the judge is thinking now - lots of pressure on him now that they've convicted on the highest charge too... if he's seen as "too soft" with the sentencing then he becomes a hated figure.... expectations are going to be for the max sentence even if, ordinarily, such a case much not warrant it. Will be interesting to see - as will any appeal + presumably the longer the sentence the more likely the sentence is going to be successfully bargained down in any appeal (if not some attempt at actually overturning a conviction or two).

"minimum" is likely to be a word abused to diminish the fact of it being 23.4 years. Apparently.

He's 45 years old so it won't take much over "minimum" to be a de facto life sentence.

rare · 21 Apr 2021 at 13:57

Exactly. There were clearly additional factors that contributed to the death.

If Floyd had been replaced with me, would I have died in that interaction?

kindai · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:05

rare said:
Exactly. There were clearly additional factors that contributed to the death.

If Floyd had been replaced with me, would I have died in that interaction?

A few (non scientific) people are done the same position and recorded it, surprise surprise they all survived.

ebilcake · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:22

Pudney said:
Why not 2nd and 3rd degree?

The reasons were your own post.

rare · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:34

I think pretty much everyone can see he was guilty, it’s to what extent.

Roar87 · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:35

Will be over turned on appeal, cannot have been given a fair trial with the country being held to ransom by rioters, even the President interfering with the decision. Kangaroo Court.

Absolutely he should be charged with man slaughter, the guy showed no compassion for human life, but murder? It makes a joke of the Justice system.

dowie · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:42

sharp910sh said:
Interesting how people cannot accept a guilty verdict. Chauvin was judged by his peers (but OCs) and they found him guilty. Done.

If that were the case we wouldn't have appeal courts.

it was a no brainer to find him guilty.

Nope, not with regards to the murder charges.

dowie · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:44

sharp910sh said:
He has to be granted an appeal first. He is guilty of unintentional second degree murder. What other proof do you need?

I think we're well aware of the result thanks, do you think he's going to be denied an appeal here?

omnomnom · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:46

potatolord said:
I read the recent report and thought it was good.

I also think Chauvin was guilty of manslaughter (or the US equivalent). His actions were reckless, to say the least.

I think a lot of the rage here comes from the US charge being titled "murder", which has a different connotation in English law.

That is the US equivalent.

FishFluff · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:48

Twinz said:
Wrong.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1218556

So if someone is already struggling to breathe, you think the correct course of action is to put your knee on their neck? Sounds like the US police would welcome you.

dowie · 21 Apr 2021 at 14:54

sharp910sh said:
Its a high possibility. Nelson and Chauvin know it.

The only way he could be allowed an appeal is if the jury's decision was proven to be influenced by external factors. I.e Maxine Waters

I doubt you’re in a position to make claims about the only appeal routes here.

MadMossy · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:06

Chauvin expected a guilty verdict, just don't think he expected all 3. Why else would he have written his lawyers number on his hand before being escorted in cuffs.

On appeal grounds alone, the judge said Dem. Waters basically handed him a free pass with her comments. The entire trial was a farce from the get go, he was branded guilty before the jury had even been picked thanks to the state handing the family a tidy 27 million dollar payout, without even waiting for the trial. They had to justify it one way or another.

What were they going to do if he were found not guilty, ask for the money back?

deuse · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:11

It makes me angry that people like a career criminal and riot in his name.

But when a 7 year old black girl got shot and killed at a McDonalds drive through.
No one says a word or protests in her name. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...lled-man-seriously-hurt-homan-square-shooting

Nothing on the blm website about it.

Enkore · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:12

deuse said:
It makes me angry that people like a carrier criminal and riot in his name.

But when a 7 year old black girl got shot and killed at a McDonalds drive through.
No one says a word or protests in her name. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...lled-man-seriously-hurt-homan-square-shooting

Nothing on the blm website about it.

Unfortunately the sad state of affairs in whole world I might add not just US.

Moley · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:15

FishFluff said:
So if someone is already struggling to breathe, you think the correct course of action is to put your knee on their neck? Sounds like the US police would welcome you.

That depends on whether you believe their claims that they are struggling to breathe or not - bearing in mind people attempting to evade arrest will lie about all sorts of things if they think it will get them out of it.

If he was telling the truth about struggling for breath before being restrained, you have to ask why? Why is he struggling for breath? - and that takes us back to his health issues and drug ingestion, which in turn provides reasonable doubt and Chauvin shouldn't have been convicted.

If he was lying - as the police no doubt believed, as they will have seen similar time and time again - then at what point does his complaints stop being lies and start being the truth and how are the officers supposed to be able to tell this? Again this introduces reasonable doubt as the officers are not medically trained and couldn't have made that judgement.

Also it's worth noting that the knee on the neck restraint technique was introduced as a lesser method of restraint as other previous methods were deemed too harsh - go figure.

This isn't over, Chauvin's legal team will appeal. I don't want to speculate on the result of that, other than to tentatively predict riots.

deuse · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:16

sharp910sh said:
Wonder why you guys are rooting for Chauvin? Before you were saying he will not be found guilty.

Who was that?

Twinz · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:18

FishFluff said:
So if someone is already struggling to breathe, you think the correct course of action is to put your knee on their neck? Sounds like the US police would welcome you.

Way to move the goal posts.

The narrative was that a healthy man was fine until the police held him down.

Healthy men don't have trouble breathing standing next to a car, so that narrative was false. He was in bad shape. Taking drugs with a serious heart condition can kill you....particularly when coupled with the stress of getting arreseted.

Without the police knowing of the potentially life-threatening heart condition/drug mix, the "I can't breath" statements could reasonabley be considered to be simple cries of "WOLF" that they hear over and over again when arresting people.

That, or psychosomatic claustrophobia reaction. While many people with phobias think they are going to die, and sometimes even announce it, they usually don't.

We know about the drugs and heart condition *now* so in hindsight the breathing complaints while standing next to the car were probably genuine.

However, if you expect the police to take criminals at their word while they resist arrest, you have unrealistic expectations.

Ayahuasca · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:19

sharp910sh said:
I noticed that. People who spend a lot of money on computer equipment etc are those kind of people it seems.

That might be the hottest take in this thread, which is really quite something.

mattyfez · 21 Apr 2021 at 15:22

Seems a lot of people watched a different video of his murder to the one I saw... I can't see how any other verdict than guitly could have been reached.

At least the bent copper got to to to trial, less than the opportunity he afforded his victim.

Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

Sgarrista