Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

[Nitefly]

I’m being silly but it is nevertheless amusing to think about how far the “but he was going to die anyway!!” defence could be stretched.

The question wasn’t whether GF would be dead anyway. It was whether he was killed by DC and, if so, whether DC could justify doing so.

 

[kindai]

Assuming the verdict is overturned and a retrial is done. The defense has seen this strategy didnt work. How do they mix it up next time?

 

[pallys]

You can say they are irrelevant as much as you like but that’s just nonsense. It’s self evident that both his health and the drugs played a role in his death. As I said earlier, if you replaced him with someone else, the outcome may have been entirely different. I’m not saying DC was not at fault - I’m saying there were other factors at play. You can say they are irrelevant as much as you want, and they may well be from a legal perspective in terms of the outcome - but they clearly were not irrelevant on the day.

With all due respect you are not a doctor and the pulmonologist had already said the painkiller (for his chronic pain) played no part in his death and that he actually had a very strong heart. He also said anyone human would have died with that compression techniques a result of shallow breathing.

 

[platinum87]

I’m being silly but it is nevertheless amusing to think about how far the “but he was going to die anyway!!” defence could be stretched.

The question wasn’t whether GF would be dead anyway. It was whether he was killed by DC and, if so, whether DC could justify doing so.

Being a police officer is insane due to this, not due to the risk of being shot by criminals.

If a man attacks a police officer and i push that man off the police officer, that would be GBH with intent as he would cut his face, or chip his tooth etc.

The keyboard warriors here are not the ones who would simply fight, but those who believe they can intervene in a safe way not causing damage etc.

A lack of experience and knowledge and perspective is the problem, with people who have never been in any fights commenting on a violent situation, or a use of force.

 

[Hotwired]

Assuming the verdict is overturned and a retrial is done. The defense has seen this strategy didnt work. How do they mix it up next time?

Roll the dice for a jury that will be slightly more sympathetic, milk the difficulty of the job angle and hope.

They tried to plead for 3rd degree and getting that in a retrial would be substantially better than having 2nd degree on the convictions.

 

[pallys]

If you live in a world that only see's in black and white, then sure you win.

The rest of us live in reality.

Hear you but problem is this does look like black and white from the video evidence.
You got member of the public tell him quite calmly he's non responsive. DC also got his colleague saying he worried and turn him over for DC to say no.

At that point DC painted himself into a corner that begins to lool like murder. Even unintentional murder is generous at this stage.

It's a shame he opted out of being allowed to be cross examined. He knew he could not explain away the final 3 minutes when he was restraining a corpse with maximum pressure. I could see his toecaps sometimes were not even touching the floor proper dug in with his knees, he literally twisted the knife metaphorically speaking, it looked like he just wanted to make sure.
Then calmly walks away when medic said he's dead. Guy is tapped in the head,. no remorse whatsoever.

He should have pretended to show remorse that way might have only got manslaughter or even let off and then say oopsie it was all an accident.

 

[wildman]

No previous criminal record.

12 years for Murder 2
12 years for Murder 3
4-5 years for Manslaughter 2

Concurrent or consecutive is the question.

I fully expect an appeal on the Murder 2 conviction.

would be concurrent as it is his first offence so he will likely at max see 12 years and probably get let out early and relocated with a new identity.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Assuming the verdict is overturned and a retrial is done. The defense has seen this strategy didnt work. How do they mix it up next time?

I just can't see the verdict getting overturned. What is their appeal? Saying the jury came to the wrong verdict isn't a cause for an appeal.

 

[kindai]

I just can't see the verdict getting overturned. What is their appeal? Saying the jury came to the wrong verdict isn't a cause for an appeal.

Plenty of actual lawyers out there posting grounds for appeal, and there are a fair few. As to if any of them get accepted is another matter (90% dont).

 

[Angilion]

It's not inconvenient for me.

It must be or else you wouldn't be so studiously ignoring it.

Lets say he was having problems breathing before he was placed on his front as he claimed.

But earlier you said he was breathing normally. That was something you presented as something important, a key piece of evidence. So which is it?

Is kneeling for 9.5 minutes on someone who says they can't breathe the logical thing to do?

It might be if you've been taught that as a non-lethal restraint technique (as it was stated to be in the police training manual and as Chauvin had been taught it was) and you're a police officer who needs to restrain someone and if you're sure the person is lying. You said yourself that you thought Floyd was lying about having problems breathing - you said he was breathing normally. In fact, you said he was breathing normally up until he died. Which, of course, would make Chauvin not guilty of anything according to your own statement that Floyd was breathing normally while restrained. And unlike Chauvin, you didn't know that Floyd had said the same thing when he was arrested before. No doubt other people have too - being taken to hospital is better than being taken to a cell.

Then when they are not responsive and stop breathing is continuing to kneel on them the logical thing to do?

As I've said several times before, no. Amazingly, reality is not as simple as being only a choice between two extremes.

Surely you recognise the police did not kill the kid so therefore is different.

That depends on what your goal is:

If your goal is to reduce the number of people killed and improve the general level of safety, a 7 year old killed in a deliberate murder matters.

If you're BLM and thus your goal is to promote extreme antiwhite racism based on the idea that whites are so subhuman that their lives don't matter and are simultaneously the source of all evil, this particular 7 year old being killed in a deliberate murder still matters because she was "black", i.e. of the master race. But not as much because the "race" the killer isn't yet officially known and they're almost certain to be "black" as well, so her death isn't as useful for racist propaganda.

If your goal is to remove the police so they can be replaced with your own ideology's militia, her death doesn't matter at all. It's completely different.

 

[Angilion]

With all due respect you are not a doctor and the pulmonologist had already said the painkiller (for his chronic pain) played no part in his death and that he actually had a very strong heart. He also said anyone human would have died with that compression techniques a result of shallow breathing.

Where is your evidence for claiming that the person who did the autopsy is lying and had completely falsified the results of the autopsy? Why do you think the prosecution didn't make that allegation during the trial? Where is your evidence for claiming that almost all of the people restrained with that technique were not human? Is it some sort of "aliens among us" thing? Were they all alien lizards in disguise?

Also...is methamphetimine really used as a painkiller in the USA? And combined with Fentanyl at doses higher than the average amount found in people who died of an overdose of Fentanyl?

 

[dowie]

What is your point dowie?

As per the post, there is money to be made even for a witness.

lol who the hell sets up a gofundme because they saw something bad happen?? That's literally the most brazen way to raise cash off the back of something, christ, it's tacky, horrid and just downright ghastly.

Crazy right! There is starting to be a culture of something goes viral, attach a go fund me to the story.... big pay off. Plenty of potential for some media appearances etc.. too if she chooses to go down that route. Happened with some school shooting over there too - some of the kids managed to use the incident to become public figures.

 

[deuse]

Surely you recognise the police did not kill the kid so therefore is different.

So you are saying it's ok to kill a baby and no one does a thing.
But if a cop does, then all hell gets lose?

Lebron has lost the plot

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384972296276881417

 

[deuse]

I just can't see the verdict getting overturned. What is their appeal? Saying the jury came to the wrong verdict isn't a cause for an appeal.

If you do your home work, there is 3 things he can bring up.
And no. I'm not spoon feeding you.

 

[Crpwned]

If you do your home work, there is 3 things he can bring up.
And no. I'm not spoon feeding you.

So you have nothing then? Gotcha

What is this, a buzz feed article?
"3 shocking defenses you won't believe!!"

 

[deuse]

BBC caught in a lie and gets put straight.

 

[VincentHanna]

BBC caught in a lie and gets put straight.

It's hilarious that the guy is complaining people are using the trial to make money when he's selling merch in his YouTube channel and clearly making money from his 1 million+ subscribers.

He also bought up the usual conservative talking points we used to hear that Hilary's mentor was a white supremacist, except now it's switched to "Biden spoke at his funeral"

Everyone accepts that Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK when he was young, but by the time he passed he had completely changed his position

In a 2006 CNN interview, Byrd called his time in the Klan the greatest mistake of his life. In 2005, Byrd commented on his past membership of the Klan in his memoir and in an interview with the Washington Post said, "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times … and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened."

During the 2008 presidential race, Byrd endorsed Barack Obama ( here ).

At the time of his death, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), a leading civil rights organization formed in 1909 for the advancement of racial equality and elimination of racial discrimination, issued a statement mourning his passing. The NAACP’s President and CEO remarked: "Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation. Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country”.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

It must be or else you wouldn't be so studiously ignoring it.



But earlier you said he was breathing normally. That was something you presented as something important, a key piece of evidence. So which is it?



It might be if you've been taught that as a non-lethal restraint technique (as it was stated to be in the police training manual and as Chauvin had been taught it was) and you're a police officer who needs to restrain someone and if you're sure the person is lying. You said yourself that you thought Floyd was lying about having problems breathing - you said he was breathing normally. In fact, you said he was breathing normally up until he died. Which, of course, would make Chauvin not guilty of anything according to your own statement that Floyd was breathing normally while restrained. And unlike Chauvin, you didn't know that Floyd had said the same thing when he was arrested before. No doubt other people have too - being taken to hospital is better than being taken to a cell.

Wow I'm not sure why you are finding this so difficult to comprehend. I never said he was breathing normally. I said his breathing rate was normal, as testified to in the trial. It wasn't depressed from opioid ingestion. Just because his breathing rate was normal doesn't mean his breathing was normal does it. Maybe you need to go and watch the trial or read the transcript.

I said he might have been lying to begin with. We have no idea if he was or not because DC murdered him so we can't ask him. Even if he was lying to begin with, it doesn't mean he was all the way through does it. Clearly he wasn't lying all the way through because he couldn't breath and he died from a lack of oxygen because DC was kneeling on his neck for over 9.5 minutes.

Several of his fellow officers testified that he was never taught that and that wasn't in their training. Regardless it is what would a reasonable person do. A reasonable person doesn't kneel on someone's neck for over 9.5 minutes even when they've stopped responding and stopped breathing. That is why he was found guilty and it was the correct verdict.

 

[The Running Man]

You can see that there is systemic racism because if officer tatami was white he wouldn't be allowed to have a platform saying that 50% of the crimes and murders are by 13% if the population.

If he was white he would have been deplatformed.

 

[deuse]

snip

It does not matter.
The BBC video was factual. (Well they got the number of whites killed wrong)

And you saying "Byrd called his time in the Klan the greatest mistake of his life."
Is like saying a serial killers greatest mistake was getting caught.

And Byrd's pal Biden was the architect of multiple federal laws in the 1980s and ’90s that disproportionately jailed Black people and contributed to what many people see as systemic racism.

You lot can't see the truth....ever.