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This is what a scalper looks like..

Associate
Joined
3 Dec 2020
Posts
113
No they shouldn't be charging VAT. Only a VAT registered body charges VAT.

You sell 2x the GPUs shown above, and you'll likely have to register. Pretty sure the guy is not gonna stop once he sells these... and I'm sure he has already sold a few before. Not to mention capital tax anyway, even if you are selling just a few of them, and as second hand items. You want to pretend all that is legal, ok, it doesn't matter to me really, but it is not legal even.
 
Permabanned
Joined
22 Oct 2018
Posts
2,451
And VAT would've been paid when they bought the items originally. Can't charge VAT + VAT, unless I'm mistaken.

Once you become VAT registered ( and you only have to if you sell above a certain amount ~ £80,000 ) then you can both claim back VAT on purchases and you must charge VAT on sales. Problem is that if you buy from a non registered entity then you cant claim it back so if you are registered there are times when you do have to charge VAT + VAT because you bought from say someone on ebay.
 
Associate
Joined
7 Apr 2021
Posts
15
I'm amazed that anybody can truly defend any part of what scalpers do. I'm equally amazed that anybody would sacrifice their consumer rights and buy from them. I don't like the high shop prices, but at least I would be protected if I were to miraculously be able to buy from them.
 
Caporegime
Joined
5 Sep 2010
Posts
25,572
Where if the formal list of essential items that includes toilet rolls? Toilet rolls are taxed at 20% VAT, implying they are "non-essential, luxury items".

Are clothes and foorwear for children essential items but the adult versions "non-essential, luxury items"?
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Feb 2007
Posts
14,254
Location
ArcCorp
I don't blame the scalpers, They are using the open market, It's the simpletons that enable them that are the real problem especially for long term pricing, Manufacturers will see this and think -

"Oh... people are willing to pay xxxx amount, Let's put up our MSRP"


That's the way it's headed and that is something that could wreak havoc throughout multiple industries as people will be less inclined to part with their hard earned money once they see these items going up and up and up at that point much like myself people will think "Do I really need this in my life?" and the 'overwhelming answer is no.
 
Last edited:
Permabanned
Joined
22 Oct 2018
Posts
2,451
I'm amazed that anybody can truly defend any part of what scalpers do. I'm equally amazed that anybody would sacrifice their consumer rights and buy from them. I don't like the high shop prices, but at least I would be protected if I were to miraculously be able to buy from them.

Agree on both counts.
Product support is extremely important. Sure, most of the time you will buy a product it will fine and there will be no issues for years, but the one in a hundred products that fail, you are royally screwed if you bought it from some scalper on ebay. To spend over £1000 and take that risk is pure insanity to my mind.
 
Associate
Joined
11 Dec 2005
Posts
1,017
Location
Brighton
Agree on both counts.
Product support is extremely important. Sure, most of the time you will buy a product it will fine and there will be no issues for years, but the one in a hundred products that fail, you are royally screwed if you bought it from some scalper on ebay. To spend over £1000 and take that risk is pure insanity to my mind.

or desperation ;)
 
Associate
Joined
3 Mar 2015
Posts
385
Location
Wokingham
If somebody is stupid enough to offer me a huge amount of money for something that is worth far less, I'd take it. Would that make me a very bad person?

Not if you didn't set out with that intention, then no. But, if you take advantage of another human being for your own gain, just because you are able to, and without adding any value to them, then that's bad.

It's not illegal, but it's immoral. Sone people don't care how much they screw over other people to benifit themselves. Taking advantage of another humans' stupidity to line ones' own pocket is ancient news. But it's never been the right thing to do.
 
Associate
Joined
3 Mar 2015
Posts
385
Location
Wokingham
You sell 2x the GPUs shown above, and you'll likely have to register. Pretty sure the guy is not gonna stop once he sells these... and I'm sure he has already sold a few before. Not to mention capital tax anyway, even if you are selling just a few of them, and as second hand items. You want to pretend all that is legal, ok, it doesn't matter to me really, but it is not legal even.

Surely VAT only has to be paid once. If this seller is buying and re-selling then the product VAT was already paid.

Now, what they could do is say "This card is £500, and the service charge is £600 to cover my cists to list snd supply this". Then it's reasible that VAT should be paid on that £600 as it's 'new'.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Nov 2018
Posts
2,710
Not if you didn't set out with that intention, then no. But, if you take advantage of another human being for your own gain, just because you are able to, and without adding any value to them, then that's bad.

It's not illegal, but it's immoral. Sone people don't care how much they screw over other people to benifit themselves. Taking advantage of another humans' stupidity to line ones' own pocket is ancient news. But it's never been the right thing to do.

I agree 100% with your post. If I fixed a computer for a customer and charged £1500 instead of £80, then that is taking advantage of another human being because they would feel that they had to pay it. Or if I fixed a garage flat roof and charged £10,000 etc. Those kinds of acts should warrant a prison sentence because the customer is being forced into a corner.

However, where graphics cards are concerned, the scalper isn`t demanding money. The customer is choosing. Its 100% freewill. The customer knows 100% that the MSRP is £649 or whatever. I doubt anybody is actually tricked/coned into thinking £1800 is the MSRP.

The only thing that annoys me about scalpers is if they break a "one per customer" rule or "one per household" that some retailers have.
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Dec 2003
Posts
5,683
You sell 2x the GPUs shown above, and you'll likely have to register. Pretty sure the guy is not gonna stop once he sells these... and I'm sure he has already sold a few before. Not to mention capital tax anyway, even if you are selling just a few of them, and as second hand items. You want to pretend all that is legal, ok, it doesn't matter to me really, but it is not legal even.
Check the law on wasting chattels and CGT

We can hate scalpers but unfortunately it's legal and there is no CGT to pay
 
Associate
Joined
3 Dec 2020
Posts
113
Surely VAT only has to be paid once. If this seller is buying and re-selling then the product VAT was already paid.

Now, what they could do is say "This card is £500, and the service charge is £600 to cover my cists to list snd supply this". Then it's reasible that VAT should be paid on that £600 as it's 'new'.

What would you think about people who are reselling by dozens atm if you were the CEO, or a worker of a well known high street shop which makes business by buying and selling second hand electronic products? Let's be serious, these people pay no taxes, at all. And to think anything else is to deceive yourself, or just trying to defend an illegit business for whatever the reason.

This well known shop has to buy a GPU from a customer, lets say a 3070. they are paying 816 pounds atm. I don't know if they make you prove that the GPU is actually yours, or you have to give them proof of purchase or whatsoever, but I think it wouldn't be rare if they had to charge for VAT again on this card really, how to prove VAT has already been paid? Then they will have to pay taxes, of course: Capital gains, corporation tax... whatever, you name it. You have a local, so you pay rent for it, and don't forget your employees, insurance... they are selling this card for 960£, so with a difference of 144£ in the buy-sell price, they are still making money. How much do you think they can actually make for each card? 25-50-75...100£? And don't forget they still have and do offer you warranty. Or that they are legally obliged to things like accept refunds the first days etc...

Do you think it is fair that people buy them for 700-750, or even 470£ for a FE, by abusing the system and no adhering to the rules retailers are imposing, just to sell them at 1100£? 630£ of benefit, nothing to pay, no obligations. Scalpers are doing unfair competitions even to retailers atm, and ******* the rest of us up on the way. That is my opinion at least, of course other people will have different ones... I am curious what you would think if someone decided to buy all the petrol from the petrol station and you had to decide between not buying petrol in 6 months at all, or having to pay 10 quid per litre... a free market, after all.
 
Associate
Joined
3 Dec 2020
Posts
113
Check the law on wasting chattels and CGT

We can hate scalpers but unfortunately it's legal and there is no CGT to pay

Yeah ok, as I said on the post above... what would you think if you were the CEO of the well-known red shop, or worked there? They are taking part of your market, after all... In any case, just because something is legal, doesn't mean is by any means ethically correct.
 
Soldato
Joined
22 Oct 2008
Posts
11,483
Location
Lisburn, Northern Ireland
For all of you people who say scalpers are not the problem, and that availability would be the same with or without them, or people who think they do not have to pay taxes because they just sell one or two (they should be charging you VAT anyway really)... take a glance at the real world: do you really think this is something normal? do you really think having people buying them by dozens doesn't affect you as a customer? You can even see some of them having 10 FE cards on sale, they are clearly abusing the system... do you guys really see this normal, at a time when people have been waiting more than 6 months in order to buy a GPU and are still waiting?

rcVGdQH.jpg
PjK1zYk.jpg
VcPXXCn.jpg

This is just an example, there are hundreds of them. Of course you can't buy a GPU, they are in someone's wardrobe waiting to be sold at a crazy price! I don't even think anyone know how many people is trying to buy a GPU out there anymore really... and this is London, and the price is in pounds, if you are wondering.

This person has the cash to buy these up front so they have been scalping for a long time to get the funds to buy these cards outright at the start.
 
Associate
Joined
29 Mar 2021
Posts
541
For all of you people who say scalpers are not the problem, and that availability would be the same with or without them, or people who think they do not have to pay taxes because they just sell one or two (they should be charging you VAT anyway really)... take a glance at the real world: do you really think this is something normal? do you really think having people buying them by dozens doesn't affect you as a customer? You can even see some of them having 10 FE cards on sale, they are clearly abusing the system... do you guys really see this normal, at a time when people have been waiting more than 6 months in order to buy a GPU and are still waiting?

rcVGdQH.jpg
PjK1zYk.jpg
VcPXXCn.jpg

This is just an example, there are hundreds of them. Of course you can't buy a GPU, they are in someone's wardrobe waiting to be sold at a crazy price! I don't even think anyone know how many people is trying to buy a GPU out there anymore really... and this is London, and the price is in pounds, if you are wondering.

this looks to be around 100% markup on msrp ?, so quite a upfront cost and proof that scalping is a massive issue, i would say on par with mining
 
Associate
Joined
3 Mar 2015
Posts
385
Location
Wokingham
What would you think about people who are reselling by dozens atm if you were the CEO, or a worker of a well known high street shop which makes business by buying and selling second hand electronic products? Let's be serious, these people pay no taxes, at all. And to think anything else is to deceive yourself, or just trying to defend an illegit business for whatever the reason.

This well known shop has to buy a GPU from a customer, lets say a 3070. they are paying 816 pounds atm. I don't know if they make you prove that the GPU is actually yours, or you have to give them proof of purchase or whatsoever, but I think it wouldn't be rare if they had to charge for VAT again on this card really, how to prove VAT has already been paid? Then they will have to pay taxes, of course: Capital gains, corporation tax... whatever, you name it. You have a local, so you pay rent for it, and don't forget your employees, insurance... they are selling this card for 960£, so with a difference of 144£ in the buy-sell price, they are still making money. How much do you think they can actually make for each card? 25-50-75...100£? And don't forget they still have and do offer you warranty. Or that they are legally obliged to things like accept refunds the first days etc...

Do you think it is fair that people buy them for 700-750, or even 470£ for a FE, by abusing the system and no adhering to the rules retailers are imposing, just to sell them at 1100£? 630£ of benefit, nothing to pay, no obligations. Scalpers are doing unfair competitions even to retailers atm, and ******* the rest of us up on the way. That is my opinion at least, of course other people will have different ones... I am curious what you would think if someone decided to buy all the petrol from the petrol station and you had to decide between not buying petrol in 6 months at all, or having to pay 10 quid per litre... a free market, after all.

I think you got me wrong. I think scalpers are Scum, and I wont defend them. But Im also interested in getting the details right about tax I prefer to attack scalping on genuine information, not misinformation about VAT
 
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