Marvel Studios: The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

Reality|Bites · 22 Apr 2021 at 18:01

are these shows intended for teenagers or adults who grew up with the comics and cartoons, movies?
I think I may have grown up too much to appreciate them maybe? I loved Smallville back in the day but I don't think I could watch it again these days, Loved Buffy but now maybe not. Angel is still up there though.

chroniclard · 22 Apr 2021 at 18:03

Reality|Bites said:
are these shows intended for teenagers or adults who grew up with the comics and cartoons, movies?
I think I may have grown up too much to appreciate them maybe? I loved Smallville back in the day but I don't think I could watch it again these days, Loved Buffy but now maybe not. Angel is still up there though.

They are not particularly "adult" but dont think they are aimed squarely at teens. They are certainly more adult than guff like Smallville.

McPhee · 23 Apr 2021 at 10:58

Well, this didn't really pick up much in the last episode. They basically spent six episodes making a huge meal out of a black guy becoming Captain America (which was no surprise, as the end of Endgame alluded to this outcome anyway), and telling the origin story of US Agent.

Still, at least there were subtle hints about the ongoing storyline for the Earth-based story arc going forward.

gettothechopper · 23 Apr 2021 at 12:12

It was fine, nothing super amazing but watchable

PlacidCasual · 23 Apr 2021 at 14:00

I enjoyed it, I liked how it built lots of future threads but it didn't blow me away I think there were better episodes earlier in the series. I like Mackie's character but I don't think I'll ever really see him as Captain America. The lack of Super Soldier powers and the fact that Chris Evans nailed the role for 10 years. I liked Bucky's arc more in many respects smaller and lower key but satisfying.

Nothing to dislike in the series plenty of high points, enjoyable but not "special".

Zemo was probably the best thing in it overall a real scene stealing performance all round.

ianh · 23 Apr 2021 at 17:07

I'm a bit torn over episode 6 - the first 2/3rds was typical "end of a marvel movie" action fluff - perfectly adequate but with the "twists" failing hard because we've already figured them out a while ago -whilst the last 1/3 swung between some absolutely terrible writing (Sam's wooden speech to the GRC) to some of the best writing of the season (Sam's amazing speech/actions to Isaiah).

As a none comic reader the only thing that I hadn't guessed was the "US Agent" angle at the end which was a genuine surprise (thought it would be a negative outcome instead) but the redemption arc was well written. Sadly however the weakest element, as it has been through-out so far, was the flag-smashers who have been the weakest written baddies in the MCU so far for me.

PlacidCasual said:
I liked Bucky's arc more in many respects smaller and lower key but satisfying.

Nothing to dislike in the series plenty of high points, enjoyable but not "special".

Zemo was probably the best thing in it overall a real scene stealing performance all round.

Yeah I'd also agree with those points.

No1newts · 23 Apr 2021 at 21:43

Comic wise Bucky and Sam have both been Cap at one point or the other, having a "normal" Cap will really limit him in the film's depending on who the enemy is. The logical choice for the next Cap was Bucky as they've given him the super soldier serum in the series unlike in the comics but honestly it feels like it was going to be Falcon because Marvel movies is all about representation now. I mean they can get away with it being Falcon if they keep his bad guys more low level and maybe focus on a new Hydra arc again. Let's see I guess. I know they wanted it to be Sam so they could have found a way to slip him the serum too especially of they want top level bad guys in the new arc.

Going to be weird new Avengers though when the first one comes out

Brookert · 23 Apr 2021 at 22:07

Watching the penultimate episode. Even my wife is getting frustrated at the 'themes' of the show.

Shamikebab · 23 Apr 2021 at 22:16

It was a good show, but less adventurous than Wandavision. I liked that they actually showed some repercussion of the blip and what had happened to the world rather than just glossing over it. Not so keen on Sharon being the Power Broker, was a bit too obvious. I personally thought the race angle was really well handled and both Stan and Mackie were great.

Brookert · 23 Apr 2021 at 22:26

Shamikebab said:
It was a good show, but less adventurous than Wandavision. I liked that they actually showed some repercussion of the blip and what had happened to the world rather than just glossing over it. Not so keen on Sharon being the Power Broker, was a bit too obvious. I personally thought the race angle was really well handled and both Stan and Mackie were great.

I don't get why there has to be a race angle at all? No one questioned the falcons skin colour when Steve handed him the shield in end game.

To me it felt totally disjointed, with far too much monologuing and an antagonist that I don't really want to care about but the show is forcing it.

robgmun · 23 Apr 2021 at 22:52

McPhee said:
Well, this didn't really pick up much in the last episode. They basically spent six episodes making a huge meal out of a black guy becoming Captain America (which was no surprise, as the end of Endgame alluded to this outcome anyway), and telling the origin story of US Agent.

Still, at least there were subtle hints about the ongoing storyline for the Earth-based story arc going forward.

And honestly, I don't take to finger-waving lectures on how I have to accept it or you're somehow a problem. It has the opposite effect on me because it's an arrogant way to go about it. In my eyes, he's just Falcon 2.0 with caps old shield. Also, the new suit is goofy as hell, it looked awkward on him and didn't fit properly at all.

Bucky has a much stronger arc which I felt for him.

lsg1r · 24 Apr 2021 at 00:05

Like many other's I liked the overall concept of the series, the 'banter' between bucky and sam was 'fun' but I could have done without all the 'black messages' (for lack of a better desciption), it wasn't needed (or at least how 'forced' it felt, mind you Anthonie Mackie isn't exactly a great actor so might be part of the issue) imo.... it would have been nice for it just to be a simple 'hero's saving the day' type series without any other 'agendas'. The 'twist' at the end was pretty obvious, even for people who haven't seen the movies imo.

Having said that I'm sure Disney/Marvel haven't missed the 'marketing' side of things, their comics have been very 'white' for a long time and doing 'black' versions of existing characters are likely seen as a new way to get money from the black community.

As to the suit.... if that's the best wakanda could come up with what happened to their tech, yeah I know it needs to match up with the comics but man it could have been a bit better than what we got ....

Malevolence · 24 Apr 2021 at 05:26

lsg1r said:
yeah I know it needs to match up with the comics

If it matched up with the comics it would've been a vibranium suit, like Black Panther's, and a set of holo-projected hard light wings. ***unnecessary comment removed***

robgmun · 24 Apr 2021 at 07:51

lsg1r said:
Having said that I'm sure Disney/Marvel haven't missed the 'marketing' side of things, their comics have been very 'white' for a long time and doing 'black' versions of existing characters are likely seen as a new way to get money from the black community.

It's been like that in the comic world for the past decade and the sales of these comics has plummeted. Everyone is either now black or female and often both. And it looks like the MCU is going to repeat the same mistake. It's really boring to me that almost every new series on TV, in general, is either black or female for the past 12 to 18 months. And now the MCU is jumping on the bandwagon when a lot of people I know are already fed up with it. Look forward to everyone being wonderfully diverse, you can have any color you like as long as you're not white.

I'm even more convinced now Endgame was the peak and we're going to see the slow slide on the movie front. I'm only interested in about half scheduled releases on the slate.

Shamikebab · 24 Apr 2021 at 08:48

robgmun said:
It's been like that in the comic world for the past decade and the sales of these comics has plummeted. Everyone is either now black or female and often both. And it looks like the MCU is going to repeat the same mistake. It's really boring to me that almost every new series on TV, in general, is either black or female for the past 12 to 18 months. And now the MCU is jumping on the bandwagon when a lot of people I know are already fed up with it. Look forward to everyone being wonderfully diverse, you can have any color you like as long as you're not white.

I'm even more convinced now Endgame was the peak and we're going to see the slow slide on the movie front. I'm only interested in about half scheduled releases on the slate.

The show was about two people and one of them was white...

Also main supporting cast, Zemo (white), Sharon (white), Walker (white)

But keep talking about how much you love the good old days where everyone in media looked like you

Terminal_Boy · 24 Apr 2021 at 09:10

Series 2 of Altered Carbon wasn’t a fluke, the utterly wooden Antony Mackie really makes Keanu Reeves look like Sir John Gielgud in comparison.

chroniclard · 24 Apr 2021 at 09:21

robgmun said:
It's been like that in the comic world for the past decade and the sales of these comics has plummeted. Everyone is either now black or female and often both. And it looks like the MCU is going to repeat the same mistake. It's really boring to me that almost every new series on TV, in general, is either black or female for the past 12 to 18 months. And now the MCU is jumping on the bandwagon when a lot of people I know are already fed up with it. Look forward to everyone being wonderfully diverse, you can have any color you like as long as you're not white.

I'm even more convinced now Endgame was the peak and we're going to see the slow slide on the movie front. I'm only interested in about half scheduled releases on the slate.

lol

lsg1r · 24 Apr 2021 at 10:10

Terminal_Boy said:
Series 2 of Altered Carbon wasn’t a fluke, the utterly wooden Antony Mackie really makes Keanu Reeves look like Sir John Gielgud in comparison.

Yeah I couldn't even watch that season, while Mackie didn't help, the script for that season was just dire, not even sure Kinnaman (season 1) could have made that work (he's not really that diverse of an actor either).

Malevolence said:
If it matched up with the comics it would've been a vibranium suit, like Black Panther's, and a set of holo-projected hard light wings. ***unnecessary comment removed***

There's multiple versions of his suit, the red and white (I remember that more from the cartoons) was one of falcon's suits, he's now captain america.... Still agreeing the suit looks daft but I don't think we're ever getting the energy wings, unless they introduce the female captain america from earth 23291 into the MCU, she seems to have red energy wings in the marvel database.

Shamikebab said:
The show was about two people and one of them was white...

Also main supporting cast, Zemo (white), Sharon (white), Walker (white)

But keep talking about how much you love the good old days where everyone in media looked like you

That's quite selective on your choice of people considering you missed out the leader of the flag smashers who refers to herself as mixed....

Besides that none of us have said having black people in the show was wrong or even bothered about them being one of the main characters.... it was the forced 'black messages' that was added into the show which felt unnecessary. It's quite a big difference to take that as meaning we only want white people in the show.....

Shamikebab · 24 Apr 2021 at 10:15

lsg1r said:
That's quite selective on your choice of people considering you missed out the leader of the flag smashers who refers to herself as mixed....

Besides that none of us have said having black people in the show was wrong or even bothered about them being one of the main characters.... it was the forced 'black messages' that was added into the show which felt unnecessary. It's quite a big difference to take that as meaning we only want white people in the show.....

I was specifically referring to the point about you can have any colour as long as it isn't white. I think you need to read the post I replied to again.

The MCU has never been afraid to include real world issues, Tony's struggles with alcoholism and PTSD for example, Scott struggling with parental access. Weird how as soon as it's a black man dealing with real world troubles people have an issue with it. They weren't 'added into the show' at all, they were a core part of the show and one of the main character's struggles from the start.

lsg1r · 24 Apr 2021 at 10:27

Shamikebab said:
I was specifically referring to the point about you can have any colour as long as it isn't white. I think you need to read the post I replied to again.

The MCU has never been afraid to include real world issues, Tony's struggles with alcoholism and PTSD for example, Scott struggling with parental access. Weird how as soon as it's a black man dealing with real world troubles people have an issue with it. They weren't 'added into the show' at all, they were a core part of the show and one of the main character's struggles from the start.

You never actually quoted so it had no context (edit: has now been added), you can never assume that a comment is aimed directly at the one above it and in all honesty it still reads different to what you're saying here imo....

Introducing the black super soldier, fair enough, his grandson has a future role in the MCU, same as Joagquin (Sam's military buddy) in fact, but they didn't need to go down the whole 'black' story line in the way that they did. Basically it's not about the content (most of what they said is accurate in America), it's about the way it's added into the show.