When are you going fully electric?

[Jonnycoupe]

I think I'll wait for battery less cars. Possibly Hydrogen. Batteries are horrible things long term.

Electric car regardless though yeah...

 

[andicole0]

Electric car regardless though yeah...

Depends on how hydrogen is used to create motion. Hydrogen combustion engine driving the wheels or generating electricity? Which would be more efficient?

 

[RoboCod]

LOL, I'm too cheap not to buy one. I've recently got a new job that is costing me £350-£400 per month just on fuelling my E92 M3 for the commute. A £250 lease is free motoring to my man maths!

That was pretty much my position the costs for fossil fuel just didn't make sense.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Depends on how hydrogen is used to create motion. Hydrogen combustion engine driving the wheels or generating electricity? Which would be more efficient?

Good luck No one is producing a hydrogen combustion car for obvious reasons. All hydrogen fuel cell cars have a battery. A fairly decent sized one too. They need it because the fuel cell needs a buffer to put the electric into. It also helps keep the fuel cell working at peek efficiency.

The fuel is more expensive than petrol is at the pump before any tax is applied.

 

[Greebo]

I personally went for a lease on my Ioniq as I knew I wouldn't want to buy it at the end with the way that the technology is moving on (plus got a very good deal). Just be careful of the 6k per year and excess mileage charge on that PCP, if you're planning on buying it at the end then that won't matter anyway.

hopefully it’s a good rate. One thing I have noticed so far is that with all these new cars, the residuals lease and pch are using are awful. I saw that the £80k taycan costs £60k on a 3 year lease so there only see it been worth £20k, 25% after 3 years. If they are only worth that then they will be a great second hand bargain.

 

[SDK^]

Had the pleasure of talking to Jonathan Goodman, the CEO of Polestar UK and Head of Global Communications at a mini Polestar 2 meet up in Warwickshire today

Some photos

The car of the day in my opinion - The perfect colour and love the look of the Performance Pack !!!

 

[m4rmite]

There's a good review here, one thing I took from it was that the suspension hadn't been updated for the UK market so it has a floaty ride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FicZXj-1LyE

Did you see the number plate?
LG70CUK

Well thats sold it to me

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Looks a good meet, that white one looks great. was Jamie Dornan there too

 

[VincentHanna]

Yeah white Polestars are best.

(Mine is void)

 

[r22snapper]

hopefully it’s a good rate. One thing I have noticed so far is that with all these new cars, the residuals lease and pch are using are awful. I saw that the £80k taycan costs £60k on a 3 year lease so there only see it been worth £20k, 25% after 3 years. If they are only worth that then they will be a great second hand bargain.

Just under £250 on a 3+23 for 10k miles pa. Cheaper than I could buy it I reckon.

 

[FoxEye]

Batteries are too valuable to scrap and they are also really easy to recycle.
Once they have completed their life in a vehicle they can be used in factories, commercial units or domestic homes for energy storage for another 10+ years.

Lithium-ion batteries are covered by the Battery Directive, which stipulates that at least 50% of the battery in its entirety must be recycled. This is easily achievable: the packs are dismantled and the plastics and wiring that make up the bulk of the pack around the cell can be recycled, along with other similar plastics.
Currently this recycling is a manual process but is fast moving towards more automation, as the demand is increasing and it’s becoming more commercially viable.

But what about the other 50%? The reality of recycling in this country to date, is that we have tended to "deal with the problem" by dumping our waste on other countries. Like Thailand. And before that, China (before they refused to take any more).

To be truly sustainable the batteries would need to be near 100% recyclable. Because everything is finite. Whatever can't be recycled is either buried, shipped off to some other poor sod to be his problem, or ends up somewhere it shouldn't be.

Ideally, we need batteries that are good for hundreds of years, not 3-8.

 

[FoxEye]

They'll never have first hand experience, as they are far too cheap to buy one anyhow, they'll run a crap old petrol/diesel forever even if spending £10/l on fuel, as they are a cut off nose to spite face type person.

Why would I buy a £10k car when I can buy a £2k car that does everything I need...

A car is a utility, I have much more interesting things I'd rather spend my money on.

You can call it "cheap" if you like; I'd call it "priorities". I don't spend more than I have to on utilities.

Right now the petrol car is cheaper over it's entire lifetime. I'd have to do a lot of miles to make up that extra £8k. You'll have to explain how that is cutting of my nose to spite my face... just seems like a TCO calculation to me.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Bore off. There’s not even a semblance of fact to consider in your Ranty McRantface cliches.

 

[r22snapper]

But what about the other 50%? The reality of recycling in this country to date, is that we have tended to "deal with the problem" by dumping our waste on other countries. Like Thailand. And before that, China (before they refused to take any more).

To be truly sustainable the batteries would need to be near 100% recyclable. Because everything is finite. Whatever can't be recycled is either buried, shipped off to some other poor sod to be his problem, or ends up somewhere it shouldn't be.

Ideally, we need batteries that are good for hundreds of years, not 3-8.

Funny how when it comes to electric cars everyone who is concerned about batteries has very little to say about the oil that is dug out of the worst parts of the world, shipped across the planet and burnt in their car.

 

[FoxEye]

Funny how when it comes to electric cars everyone who is concerned about batteries has very little to say about the oil that is dug out of the worst parts of the world, shipped across the planet and burnt in their car.

Driving is doubtless the most polluting thing I do - probably by a long way - since other than running my PC I don't consume that much (all my stuff is ancient and used literally to destruction).

It would be nice to move away from ICE but I'll be honest, I can't afford an EV and I expect them to always be out of my price range (I'm not spending more than £2k on a car, ever, and I don't play the lottery ).

I'm also not giving up driving. If you don't drive in Cornwall you can't do anything.

So frankly I'm going to run a small petrol car until it's illegal to do so. Unless the govt steps in and gives us grants to buy EVs. Did I mention wages in Cornwall are crap

That said, an EV is only as environmentally friendly as the electricity generation plus manufacturing and associated environmental impacts. Probably still better than an ICE, but not totally inert.

 

[SDK^]

Funny how when it comes to electric cars everyone who is concerned about batteries has very little to say about the oil that is dug out of the worst parts of the world, shipped across the planet and burnt in their car....

.....at about 25% efficiency

That said, an EV is only as environmentally friendly as the electricity generation plus manufacturing and associated environmental impacts. Probably still better than an ICE, but not totally inert.

We’ve got to start some where.
10 years ago fossil fuels generated about 98% of UK electricity, now it’s about 65%, with coal almost completely gone. Greener generation is only going to improve

 

[Fusion]

So EVs are crap because you can’t buy one for £2k? Let’s be honest though, it’s not as though you can buy many cars that you can guarantee will last a long time and not throw up bills at £2k. You may be lucky,
but most cars for that price are going to
be in their autumn years, to put it politely.

People also conveniently seem to forget about the energy used to make ICE cars, too. I see FoxEye threw in the old poor and Cornish line to boot

 

[blun]

This is a comparison of a mid-size EV vs. mid-size petrol - summing up all CO2 including manufacturing and use over 150k miles on standard UK electricity.

The EV is clearly far lower impact but as others have said - it's obviously not perfect - still 26 tonnes of CO2 over it's life. If you can manage without a car that is better. We could get the EV down to a bit lower impact if charging only with 100% renewable energy.



Comparison tool here:
https://www.transportenvironment.org/news/how-clean-are-electric-cars

 

[RoboCod]

Driving is doubtless the most polluting thing I do - probably by a long way - since other than running my PC I don't consume that much (all my stuff is ancient and used literally to destruction).

It would be nice to move away from ICE but I'll be honest, I can't afford an EV and I expect them to always be out of my price range (I'm not spending more than £2k on a car, ever, and I don't play the lottery ).

I'm also not giving up driving. If you don't drive in Cornwall you can't do anything.

So frankly I'm going to run a small petrol car until it's illegal to do so. Unless the govt steps in and gives us grants to buy EVs. Did I mention wages in Cornwall are crap

That said, an EV is only as environmentally friendly as the electricity generation plus manufacturing and associated environmental impacts. Probably still better than an ICE, but not totally inert.

If you figured out your monthly costs and forget about the need for ownership, you would probably calculate that you could lease+run and EV for cheaper than you can buy and fuel an ICE.

Last nights top up. Yep, that's 1.53 PENCE per mile.

 

[jpaul]

To be truly sustainable the batteries would need to be near 100% recyclable. Because everything is finite. Whatever can't be recycled is either buried, shipped off to some other poor sod to be his problem, or ends up somewhere it shouldn't be.

eu Manufactureres do have an obligation to recycle in a carbon clean way https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/sustainability-recycling

but I agree haven't yet seen an analysis on non-recoverable battery raw materials ie. natural resources depletion
on the other hand CO2 break point over ev lifespan with wind generation is well publicized now - 2 years 60K'ish

----

hopefully it’s a good rate. One thing I have noticed so far is that with all these new cars, the residuals lease and pch are using are awful. I saw that the £80k taycan costs £60k on a 3 year lease so there only see it been worth £20k, 25% after 3 years. If they are only worth that then they will be a great second hand bargain.

I'm wondering how pure ev costs have been distorted by the chancellors 0% bik (2/3's of evs company purchased)
supply and demand - have bev prices been inflated by manufacturers relative to phev or ICE ?
Hyundai market analysis had said a year back that bev's should now be cheaper than phev's, but current rrp's don't yet reflect that.

An article about used bev oversupply, poor residuals around europe
Surging demand for new BEVs mounts pressure on residual values
doesn't discuss much , or, if new bev customers are getting good value for money, versus the manufacturers just creaming off the top.


edit: so Musk's $25K ev is more easily attainable than he pleads, if tesla have economy of scale
- is there no app to shrink bloody bitmaps
edit2: for googly impaired-
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