Platypus' Beginners Guide to Running

Soldato
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Sorry for the late replies, I was moving into the girlfriends, and building Ikea furniture takes priority.

That's a shame about your GP, it's disappointing to be dismissed like that, especially if i specialist has suggested them. Out of interest how does the chest strap report on occasions when you're truly smashing it?
When I'm truly smashing it on a level run, was during my 5km race which set my PB (27mins 22 seconds), it topped out at 223 or something silly with the average 206 BPM.

@Blackvault might be worth asking your GP to get a 2nd opinion or changing GP if you are concerned about it or feel they are ignoring your concerns.

Now that I've moved to a different village and in with the girlfriend, I'll be changing my GP practice so I might pick this up with the new doctors and see what they say.
 
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Soldato
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Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
I know that feeling. I just cant be bothered to even go out at the moment. Not sure how to get going again other than perhaps signing up for something and using it as a target.

I think that's the only option really. This Grizedale marathon has really given me a push, and i think because it's going to be hard and slow i'm hoping it then spurs me on afterwards to improve for later events.
 
Caporegime
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i was in a rutthid winter and spring but hsve since signed up to several race, which has really helped me focus on training.

Hard to nnoe which races eill be cancelled but seems like my first race on June 5th will go ahead with special permission.You have to get covid tested the day before.

110km and 5550m climbing. Feel out of shape but good to have a goal. Been getting 600-800m of climbing a day, witv some long runs up to 2000m+ climbing and 25-32km long.

Real challenge will be in July with the verbier x-alpine, 110km 8700m+ ; one of the hardest ultras per km there is

Lastly, Tor des Geants, 357km and 28,000m climbing. Not sure that race will go ahead but i will hsve to train to the limits to finish the beast
 
Soldato
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Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
Awesome, glad you're still pushing it, with having been quiet in here recently.

Some content removed as i was talking nonsense!


Seems some races are still being cancelled often enough, i got a refund for one this morning, and that was a very small 21 mile run organised by a local scout group. Howgills marathon went ahead on Sunday, as did "The Lap" which is a lap of Windermere, so am confident my Grizedale one will go ahead.
 
Soldato
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Northern Ireland
So having completed my first half marathon on the 1st of May I'm turning my attention to my 2nd, on the 28th of August, and was wondering what advice people would give/suggest to me between now and the race? Obviously, my first half was a PB but I feel without the two stops and a flatter course I should be able to improve my time on those alone, although is there anything I could do between now and then in my weekly training? Please bear in mind, I've never really done any speed sessions, etc, and would normally go out and just run for exercise, mental health benefits and to get me out of the house!

What about fueling? I was getting emotional around 17km into the run and at the end of it, I burst into tears. Speaking to my girlfriend who is a vet, but knowledgeable in all things medicine, that the emotional response could have been due to depleted glucose stores, hence the Wall? I only took a bag of Jelly Beans with me so should I be feeling better next time around? What would people's suggestions around the products, and quantity for me?
 
Soldato
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Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
Not sure about fueling, for a run around 2.5hrs like that i don't think i'd personally carry anything, except maybe a couple of gels. You could also add some energy drink into a water bottle to keep topped up regularly.

I guess it depends on your goals more than anything. Do you want to hit a certain time or just find it less difficult? I sometimes look at the Garmin training plans, but then fear that they might suck that enjoyment/mental health benefits out of running and so end up not bothering.
 
Soldato
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Northern Ireland
Not sure about fueling, for a run around 2.5hrs like that I don't think I'd personally carry anything, except maybe a couple of gels. You could also add some energy drink into a water bottle to keep topped up regularly.

I guess it depends on your goals more than anything. Do you want to hit a certain time or just find it less difficult? I sometimes look at the Garmin training plans, but then fear that they might suck that enjoyment/mental health benefits out of running and so end up not bothering.

I had a bowl of 2 Weetabix and a small banana on top for my breakfast before the race. Then about three-quarters of a bag of Jelly Babies during the run. As for liquid, I had a glass of orange juice and a cup of tea for breakfast, and a few sips of tap water at 12km and 17km during the race. This is where I'd like to improve for next time, although this was a virtual, self-supported run, while the next half is a proper race (Covid permitting) and should hopefully have energy and water stations around the course.

In terms of goals, I was stationary for about 2 minutes over the course of the run, so I'd hopefully not have to stop during the actual road race and therefore should set a new PB. The event has a cut-off time of 3 hours which I'll definitely be inside that and therefore I'm not too worried about improving my time, as not stopping should give me the increase. What I'd really like to achieve is for the run to be less difficult, which I feel could be done via my energy levels during the race. I'd also like to not cry at the finish line! :D
 
Caporegime
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Awesome, glad you're still pushing it, with having been quiet in here recently.

Some content removed as i was talking nonsense!


Seems some races are still being cancelled often enough, i got a refund for one this morning, and that was a very small 21 mile run organised by a local scout group. Howgills marathon went ahead on Sunday, as did "The Lap" which is a lap of Windermere, so am confident my Grizedale one will go ahead.


I saw your earlier post, no worries, it is hard for even experienced runners to understand the scale of races like the TORX. What you have to factor in is the massive amounts of vertical, about 28,000meters up, and down, and the down is harder than the up. Moreover, this is high alpine terrain so you are crossing boulder fields, scree slopes, narrow rdges, often on all fours with scrambling etc. In many exposed places a fall can be fatal; a Chinese runner died on the TOR course a few few years ago. So it is not that unknown to take 1 hour to go 1 mile, thus 357km take quite some time even for the fittest. You then have a lot of time just spent on eating, drinking, toilet, changing clothes, general pauses and recovery during big climbs or difficult sections. If you are under dressed then you waste energy shivering, and it can be dangerous in the high mountains far from help. Similar, if you get too hot and sweat too much you will get wet, and then risk getting cold later. With the changes in altitude and weather, it is surprising how often you are adding and removing layers. Suffice to say, that is just one example where lots of time can be spent and the overall pace is much slower than shorter races.

So 150hours is the limit, for a good runner about 120hours seems a reasonable target. In this time you have to sleep. There is no particular rules, except you should only sleep longer in the assigned life bases every 50-60km, and they warn against sleeping on the trail. Everyone has slightly different approaches, but typically it errs on the side of too little sleep. What I did last summer for the Swiss Peaks 360km is fairly standard. For the first 24-30 hours you don;t sleep, just push on through and take plenty of caffeine. Skip the first life base, so you end up at something like 100-15km and 7-8,000m of climbing You are truely dead at the end of this. At the life base you eat as much as possible, which is quite difficult with a sensitive stomach, quick shower and set everything up to charge. Lay in bed and set an alarm for 1.5 hours. It is actually very hard to sleep, your brain is buzzing, legs and body hurt, there is a lot of stress about the race to come, a lot of noise. Beds are in shared dormitories with people coming in every 5mins and switching on a light getting up or getting to bed on their own schedule. Some life bases are more organized with small sleeping areas and people grouped. Alarm goes off after seemingly 2 minutes in bed, you jump up and throw your gear on before your brain switches on. Shove as much calories and coffee down your gullet as possible and get out the door into the freezing cold night. Then aim to do about 12-18 hour to the next life base. During the 2nd day you end up needing to take a few power naps, these are strictly 5-10 minutes and you can wait until an aid station that has a tent or one of the mountain refuges. Only 1-2 naps the 2nd day. As each day passes ou need more naps and eventually you have to start seriously planning when to nap. You really want to be inside for safety/comfort, but it can be several hours between aid stations. So you need to think ahead, and if you are at the bottom of a valley or in a sheltered forest you can take a quick nap. You have to put on all your clothing (down jacket, rain jacket, hats, gloves) and set several alarms, again 5-10 minutes. You send longer getting dressed and undressed but it is important for safety. As the days go on you have real issues with sudden loss of higher level thought, which can be dangerous on the exposed sections of the course. Here it is worth really knowing the course and making a check list of places to be careful. Then you an plan strategic 0 minute nap before crossing a no-fall ridge or traversing a waterfall with slick rocks. The last days are a a mix of really vivid concentration and a lost blur, sudden hallucinations of all kinds of hideous creations before you snap out of it.


The exra distance is not at all linear. So many things that can go wrong, so many things you never think much about. A small blister will likely end the race. Eating ridiculous amounts of calories, it is more or less a given yo will spend quite some hours throwing up and making no progress as you get an electrolyte imbalance. The skin on the bottom of my feet started separating on the last day, kind of like a large blister where the whole sole of my feet was just loose and not attached to my feet. Small rashes or tender sports only get worse and worse to the point of excruciating pain. All kinds of weird muscle issues that appear form no where, hurt and make you miserable for 12 hours, then miraculously dispaear just before you quit.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
32,618
I had a bowl of 2 Weetabix and a small banana on top for my breakfast before the race. Then about three-quarters of a bag of Jelly Babies during the run. As for liquid, I had a glass of orange juice and a cup of tea for breakfast, and a few sips of tap water at 12km and 17km during the race. This is where I'd like to improve for next time, although this was a virtual, self-supported run, while the next half is a proper race (Covid permitting) and should hopefully have energy and water stations around the course.

In terms of goals, I was stationary for about 2 minutes over the course of the run, so I'd hopefully not have to stop during the actual road race and therefore should set a new PB. The event has a cut-off time of 3 hours which I'll definitely be inside that and therefore I'm not too worried about improving my time, as not stopping should give me the increase. What I'd really like to achieve is for the run to be less difficult, which I feel could be done via my energy levels during the race. I'd also like to not cry at the finish line! :D


Training for 2 to 3 hours you don;t need much beyond water, and not even that if it is cold and you move slow (you will finsih hungry and thirsty and need to eat and drink). For a race you will want more liquids and some gels
 
Soldato
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Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
Great post @D.P. I agree, i was just taking it purely at base distance and thinking of something like the barkley backyard where people can cover around 220 miles in 60 hours, but that's mainly flat, i suppose it's closer to the full Barkley which would be ~120 miles and at best take around 60 hours, but then you extrapolate that out to double the distance and it certainly makes you amazed at what people are capable of.

I think the longest run i'd like to try would be the Spartathlon but realistically that's probably far beyond what i'm capable of, along with how difficult it reportedly is to get into.


For me, i've decided i need to get back onto some trails and just be careful as otherwise i'll get to the marathon and be used to running on flat roads and that's not going to help in the slightest. Felt so good being back up in isolation again. I made sure to limit myself and walk on the more uneven bits just to limit things but got in 7.5 miles. It's an odd route as it's basically uphill for 2 miles, ~800ft of ascent. Definitely and then levels out, then i just turned around and went back down, making sure to take it easy on the downhill to limit impact force.
Can definitely tell i've not done that for a while as i felt a little sick part way up the hill, although that may have been the cheese on toast i had an hour before!

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Today my ankles don't feel too bad, just a little stiff, so quite happy with that.
 

SPG

SPG

Soldato
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28 Jul 2010
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10,255
I know that feeling. I just cant be bothered to even go out at the moment. Not sure how to get going again other than perhaps signing up for something and using it as a target.

I have Nottingham Outlaw on the 25th my running just sucks, turning 50 and getting old sucks, V02 max sprints suck, my left knee sucks, my on-cloud trainers suck (marvs fault), Z2 runs suck, forgetting to stretch as I am a disgusting sweaty mess after a run sucks.

Tempted to splash out on some of those spangle vapourflys though that everyone is on about, any experience of them anyone ?
 
Associate
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27 Sep 2004
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723
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London
I have Nottingham Outlaw on the 25th my running just sucks, turning 50 and getting old sucks, V02 max sprints suck, my left knee sucks, my on-cloud trainers suck (marvs fault), Z2 runs suck, forgetting to stretch as I am a disgusting sweaty mess after a run sucks.

Tempted to splash out on some of those spangle vapourflys though that everyone is on about, any experience of them anyone ?
The vaporflys are an excellent race shoe but they are not going to magically make any of the things you mention any above better. I'd get a better pair of daily shoes to replace your on-clouds before getting a pair of vaporflys. Or a fun pair of workout focused shoes like the Nike Invincible for z2 runs or Nike tempo next% for speed workouts.
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Feb 2004
Posts
21,310
Location
Hondon de las Nieves, Spain
I have Nottingham Outlaw on the 25th my running just sucks, turning 50 and getting old sucks, V02 max sprints suck, my left knee sucks, my on-cloud trainers suck (marvs fault), Z2 runs suck, forgetting to stretch as I am a disgusting sweaty mess after a run sucks.

Tempted to splash out on some of those spangle vapourflys though that everyone is on about, any experience of them anyone ?

I take absolutely zero responsibility!
 
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