Disenfranchisement and I.D. Cards

Jean-F · 13 May 2021 at 17:23

i caught a snatch of panel conversation on a TV show yesterday, the subject of Bojo’s alleged desire to introduce I.D. cards for voters was being discussed.
Someone said that if it went through, 2 million voters could be disenfranchised, as they had no photo I.D.
Now I can’t see how one can go through life these days without access to photo I.D., but I recognise that it’s the individual’s prerogative to have one or not, but the next statement blew my mind.
A guy on the panel said that 47% of black people old enough to drive do not possess a driving licence, as opposed to 26% of white people.
I can’t put my finger on why I find that remarkable, but I do.

cheesyboy · 13 May 2021 at 17:26

My mother in law has no photo id.

It's pure politics: Tories know the maths of how disenfranchisement shakes out.

mmj_uk · 13 May 2021 at 17:28

It's the same argument US Democrats push, that black people don't have and are incapable of getting ID.

Doesn't sound racist at all.

Rotty · 13 May 2021 at 17:29

something needs to be done about the huge amounts of voter fraud in certain parts of the country, not saying this is the answer but it needs dealing with

antijoke · 13 May 2021 at 17:30

They assume that people without photo Id actually give a **** and would vote anyway!

Randomface74 · 13 May 2021 at 17:33

Can't people without photo ID just go get it?

antijoke · 13 May 2021 at 17:35

billysielu said:
Can't people without photo ID just go get it?

imagine people would cry it’s against their human rights not to carry ID

cheesyboy · 13 May 2021 at 17:36

billysielu said:
Can't people without photo ID just go get it?

I don't think you can get one for less than about £20, which is exclusionary for the poorest.

tom_e · 13 May 2021 at 17:37

I can't believe you don't even have to take your polling card as at least some form of you being who you say you are

d_brennen · 13 May 2021 at 17:38

cheesyboy said:
I don't think you can get one for less than about £20, which is exclusionary for the poorest.

You have to be rock bottom not to be able to scrape together £20.

I can't see a national ID card being charged for to the end user either, it'll be tax funded shirley?

Nitefly · 13 May 2021 at 17:38

It is pretty astonishing to think how many people get on without photo ID. Basically, people who don’t drive and have no incentive or ability to go abroad.

What different lives we must lead.

cheesyboy · 13 May 2021 at 17:39

Rotty said:
something needs to be done about the huge amounts of voter fraud in certain parts of the country, not saying this is the answer but it needs dealing with

There's no evidence of large scale election fraud, per the electoral commission
https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

cheesyboy · 13 May 2021 at 17:39

d_brennen said:
You have to be rock bottom not to be able to scrape together £20.

Yes

Randomface74 · 13 May 2021 at 17:40

OK so there needs to be some sort of photo ID charity to fix that.
Then we can use photo ID.
Those whining about rights can choose not to vote if they can't deal with carrying ID for 5 minutes.

Lord-Jaffa · 13 May 2021 at 17:42

cheesyboy said:
Yes

The voter I.D cards will be free.

peterwalkley · 13 May 2021 at 17:43

I smell a pending cluster-f in building the IT system to support it. It'll either be handed over to some mate of BOJO's whose IT experience was an excel training course 15 years ago or one of the usual suspects (Crapita, EDS etc) who bids low and then farms it all out to the cheapest third world developers they can find, whilst constantly jacking up the price afterwards for every tiny change. Oh ... you wanted personal data not accessible to every nosey parker on the local parish council ... that's extra matey.

cheesyboy · 13 May 2021 at 17:43

billysielu said:
OK so there needs to be some sort of photo ID charity to fix that.
Then we can use photo ID.
Those whining about rights can choose not to vote if they can't deal with carrying ID for 5 minutes.

We could just let people vote. There's no evidence of any but the tiniest amount of fraud.

Seems allowing voting us more important in a democracy.

alex24 · 13 May 2021 at 17:45

Where's the evidence of widespread or significant voter fraud? It's a bit crazy to assume that's an issue when you look at the general turnout and consider all the people who don't vote at all. All this will do is turn even more people off from voting, predictably in a ratio that would benefit our current government and way more than those who are allegedly committing fraud. Elections should be free and anonymous and anything that discourages people from exercising that right can only be bad for our country, as their voices are not heard.

It's a move by our government to cling onto power and to be honest, even the debate on this is a distraction from a lot of the bigger societal issues, corruption, cronyism, incompetence and fundamental constitutional issues that we should really be talking about when it comes to politics.

Feek · 13 May 2021 at 17:45

tom_e said:
I can't believe you don't even have to take your polling card as at least some form of you being who you say you are

I've never taken a polling card to the polling station with me and I've never been asked for ID.

Pho · 13 May 2021 at 17:46

There were 6 cases of voter fraud at the last election.

There are over 125,000 children who are homeless, and 4.3 million children are growing up in poverty.

Why does the government think that suppressing voters' democratic rights is more important than looking after our kids?

https://twitter.com/AngelaRayner/status/1392219370852659200

I know it's a Labour source, but it's a good quote. It seems like a policy designed to prevent poorer people from voting; those who don't vote Conservative (ergo, those who don't matter). If we had wide spread fraud then fair enough.

Why we still have to go to a polling booth or vote via post in 2021 is laughable as well. Digitise it, let people vote online / via apps if they wish, use the blockchain etc. I can only imagine the look of shock on kids faces who've used tech since they were born when they're told they have to go write an X on a piece of paper and put it in a box that gets counted manually requiring hours of time. It's outdated.

Yes, security, hacking, fraud etc; but it can be done properly. Tie it to your national insurance number or whatever which most people have.

(I actually think ID cards are mostly a good idea for most aspects of life, but I'd want it stored on my phone which I can use like Google/Apple pay etc instead of carrying a physical card)

Randomface74 · 13 May 2021 at 17:47

Not being able to provide evidence just means you can't provide evidence, it doesn't mean there isn't voter fraud. The truth is we have no idea how much voter fraud there is.

Edit: lol @ Angela Rayner "There were 6 cases of voter fraud at the last election.".
How the f could she know how many total cases of voter fraud there were. She can't.