Disenfranchisement and I.D. Cards

[mattx2]

People that own multiple houses have the opportunity to vote multiple times so these people should have to get a voter card to prove they have lived at the address they are voting from for 12 months preceding the vote by bringing in documented proof of utility bills etc to somewhere like the post office 90 days before the general election to ensure they can only vote once. This would ensure there is no double voting going on

 

[Stolly]

People that own multiple houses have the opportunity to vote multiple times so these people should have to get a voter card to prove they have lived at the address they are voting from for 12 months preceding the vote by bringing in documented proof of utility bills etc to somewhere like the post office 90 days before the general election to ensure they can only vote once. This would ensure there is no double voting going on

Its already illegal to vote in two elections in two places at one election. Nevermind the the practical difficulties. How much do you think this really occurs ?

 

[chroniclard]

With majorities sometimes in the double or even single digits even the tiniest amount of fraud can make a difference. Remember that there have been cases of fraud: Lutfur Rahman is a recent case.

Anyway, voter fraud isn't the real issue; rather, it's the integrity of the process. Voting has to not only be fraud-free but be seen to be fraud-free. One only has to look at the disaster of the American election to see why. And remember the presumption of innocence: you have to prove that people commited fraud to convict but even the sniff of fraud taints the process.

I am in favour of voters having to be able to prove they are who they say they are.

The disaster of the American election was caused by conspiracy loonies promoting lies, Trump in particular.

Again, very little actual evidence of fraud.

Voter ID is a colossal waste of time and money,

 

[tom_nieto]

something needs to be done about the huge amounts of voter fraud in certain parts of the country, not saying this is the answer but it needs dealing with

https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

We really need to deal with all 6 of them as a matter of urgency.

In all seriousness, should we all have national ID cards? This is the question we should be asking. Plenty of European states have them, why not GB? Using voter fraud as justification to bring such cards in is a false argument in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

This whole point is that ID removes the uncertainty and that's why it's good.

But there isn't any uncertainty that the level of fraud is low. There was even an ONS report linked earlier stating as much.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

People that own multiple houses have the opportunity to vote multiple times

But do they vote multiple times?

People also have the opportunity to drive at 200mph on the motorway. But generally they don't.

 

[ianh]

Its already illegal to vote in two elections in two places at one election. Nevermind the the practical difficulties. How much do you think this really occurs ?

The usual complaint is students voting once in person at their Uni address and once via post at their home address. Not sure if an ID card would prevent this form of fraud but twitter is usually awash with students boasting about doing this every election time and it's well reported in the press very time.

 

[tom_nieto]

Also - had anyone been to vote recently?! I can’t imagine Doris in the village hall being able to pick out a fake ID without a more sophisticated system in place like biometric ID. Another can of worms.

 

[Quartz]

The disaster of the American election was caused by conspiracy loonies promoting lies, Trump in particular.

Again, very little actual evidence of fraud.

I agree, but you're illustrating my point. Voting requirements were so lax, with - for example - postal ballots arriving long after the deadline, that Trump's supporters were able to claim fraud and pass the sniff test. Whether or not there was fraud is beside the point.

 

[Stolly]

The usual complaint is students voting once in person at their Uni address and once via post at their home address. Not sure if an ID card would prevent this form of fraud but twitter is usually awash with students boasting about doing this every election time and it's well reported in the press very time.

If its well reported in the press the police would be able to deal with the people doing something illegal. Only a handful of convictions each election though oddly enough.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

It's the same argument US Democrats push, that black people don't have and are incapable of getting ID.

Doesn't sound racist at all.

The racism of low expectations.

 

[MagicBoy]

https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

We really need to deal with all 6 of them as a matter of urgency.

In all seriousness, should we all have national ID cards? This is the question we should be asking. Plenty of European states have them, why not GB? Using voter fraud as justification to bring such cards in is a false argument in my opinion.

The answer was an overwhelming no when Labour ran with it 20 years ago, it'll be no again now.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

I agree, but you're illustrating my point. Voting requirements were so lax, with - for example - postal ballots arriving long after the deadline, that Trump's supporters were able to claim fraud and pass the sniff test. Whether or not there was fraud is beside the point.

Postal votes arriving after a deadline is not fraud. It's an administration issue.

 

[Werewolf]

Ah fair enough. There is a nebulous, uncosted, individual council dependent idea for providing millions of id cards. I have the utmost confidence in the system.

Councils do already issue blue badges so have some experience, but I suspect it wouldn't scale up well especially if the council was having to fund the costs themselves, the last few times I've had to deal with renewals for them it's taken anything from two weeks to a month and that's for something with a relatively small number of people applying for it spread out over 2-5 years.

 

[Werewolf]

Postal votes arriving after a deadline is not fraud. It's an administration issue.

Aye and given IIR that for members of the military or the government serving abroad postal voting is the only way they can exercise their legal right to vote claiming that votes that were posted in line with the requirements is fraud is a nonsense.

 

[tom_nieto]

The answer was an overwhelming no when Labour ran with it 20 years ago, it'll be no again now.

This is a good thing.

 

[ianh]

If its well reported in the press the police would be able to deal with the people doing something illegal. Only a handful of convictions each election though oddly enough.

Are the Police able to divert limited resources to investigate such a "minor" crime to prove/disprove it? I'd guess that, alongside other minor crimes which some Police forces no longer attend to at certain times, it's rarely if ever investigated. I think that is point billyeilu was trying to make - if we don't check that every single voter is doing so legitimately, you can't know if any votes are fraudulent or not, and if you've no idea how many fraud cases there might/might not be you can claim fraud is very low based on the tiny number of cases actually investigated i.e. if we tested every single vote in the last UK election for any fraudulent behaviour (which we wouldn't ever do due to time//cost etc) we might find that we range from "just 6" as reported to maybe millions, who knows without that investigation?

Whilst I think voter ID is a good idea, it'll be a failure if it's not 100% free to avoid the usual "won't someone think of the poor people" sad face stories the press love to run out as elections are the most important civic duty a person can take part in so it's a shame we've never made 100% sure they can't be buggered about with.

 

[plasmahal]

I don't think you can get one for less than about £20, which is exclusionary for the poorest.

Absolute rubbish, they have £20 of taxpayers money to spend on fags so there is no excuse.

 

[plasmahal]

As soon as it exists, we can start to fix it.

Yep, that's why they are starting to fix it....

 

[plasmahal]

One means disenfranchising lots of people because of no evidence of voter fraud.

no one with the legal right to vote will be stopped from doing so. There is evidence as stated by the .gov.uk report and the media has reported some of those cases in inner-London were as lot of voter fraud was found.

You don't let a cancer grow so large it's hard to deal with, you sort ASAP. It's very dumb to ignore the issue no matter how small you think it is.