So who has spent time in the Army/Forces how do you feel afterwards

[FoxEye]

In some ways it's very different.
When I joined up, it was very different to both my life previously and everything I'd been led to believe it would be. It took some time to get used to it.

Since leaving, it's taken me over 20 years to adjust back and I'm still at odds with some civvy ways of doing things (or more often not getting things done).
A lot of people just seem like a complete waste of flesh, while others are utter *****, and it still horrifies me that I would have been expected to bleed out screaming just so they could obliviously go about their selfish, self-serving existence.

Job-wise, there wasn't much call for someone with my very particular set of skills in civvy street (even in America), so I wound up working in an Engineering environment. People are slightly better, but also heavily nuanced and interspersed with non-engineering types who are the typical petty office workers, more concerned that your telephone cord is resting on the edge of their desk than they are with more important things.

During my service there was a shift in culture - You couldn't use a finger to point at a subordinate as it was threatening, so it had to be an open-handed gesture. You couldn't stand closer than 30" when addressing someone as it was threatening, and a whole load of other things which we'd now describe as 'woke'. Thankfully we never had mobile phones, so the situation wasn't exacerbated by the Twatterverse, or anything.

In some ways, military life is a Socialist's dream. Almost everyone pulls their weight, everyone has a role, everyone contributes, everyone else knows how you contribute, and everything that needs doing has someone assigned to get it done. We all work together for the benefit and betterment of us all... in theory, anyway. There are always differences in life experiences that provide points of conflict, but for the most part it works well, costs very little and can be a very comfortable existence. By comparison, civvy life is very lazy and inefficient, with a lot of it being about finding activities and interests with which to waste away your time.

That's because mostly it is... The great majority of us (civvies) will be working in non-essential jobs, selling or servicing luxury goods nobody actually needs, for the disproportionate enrichment of the company CEO and shareholders. Many will also hate their jobs. Many will downright agree that their lives (or at least employment) lack purpose or meaning. But you've got to do something for a living and we can't all be brain surgeons or cancer researchers.

But still, hating your job doesn't make it any easier, and most will be relatively tired after a day in the office/on the the road/site. Then many have to deal with family/kids and all that jazz. So you can't blame them wanting to find something fun to waste a bit of time. Maybe they have the unfortunate experience of having to deal with office politics all day long. Or maybe their job is just **** in other ways.

Ultimately there is no purpose to any of it. No purpose to your existence or mine. Whether you've been shipped off by Boris to antagonise Putin or whether you empty bins for a living, there's no point to any of it. So you choose to do whatever gives you a glimmer of happiness or gives you the faint illusion of purpose, or gets you through the day.

Anyhoo, we've had (and have) a fair few ex-mil where I work. Most are great. Some you could never tell were ex-forces (it's not like I expect them to act differently!) But there have been, let's say, some "interesting" characters as well These are the chaps who are always talking about their exploits in the forces and often telling some fairly "tall tales"... Some downright nutters too

 

[RxR]

Nihilism least defends its promoter or hearer.

 

[Rroff]

But there was a change in the wind coming and it brought with it younger people who had no life experience and were straight out of college or university and thought they knew everything. This to my mind brought in folks who lacked self discipline , drive , determination , a willingness to get the job done , laziness , insubordination and a lack of team work and caring about the person next to you. It was so frustrating that I would go home and rant to my poor missus about things like seeing people just walk passed work or not checking things were ready for the shift or leaving things dirty for the next watch. In the end I had to decide that the only way I could continue was to drop my standards (horrible thought and makes me shudder now).

Not just a generational or military thing - though it drives some of the ex-forces people at work up the wall because they have a different mindset. Too many of our drivers at work would too happily just leave the work vehicles in a state at the end of their shift for the next person to deal with if they could, etc. my upbringing is quite old fashioned in that respect in that it was drilled into me from a young age to take a degree of responsibility and not just leave **** for other people to clean up and I find people in general very hard to work around in that respect and often have to exercise restraint to not go nuclear when people can't even do the basics of it.

One of the simplest examples actually - due to this current situation we've been issued industrial type anti-viral wipes to clean equipment down after use - for a wonder most people are actually going along with doing it - but these come in a resealable box which explicitly in big letters tells you to reseal after use to keep them from drying out... how many people actually reseal after use? I think I counted like 3 out of nearly 60.

 

[Noakesy85]

I've also been to both Alice and Byron, Alice was meant to be a 2 day servicing trip on the AirCon units, turned into a week long stay due to bad weather and snow. Byron was pretty much the same, ended up PAT testing the entire site in 3 days then spent another 4 going to the gym or sitting in their 'Cinema Room' watching movies as there wasn't a great deal else I could do.

I have a fond memory of the Helicopter flight upto Alice... sitting in my seat watching the pilots mopping up water that was dripping onto the flight console because it was raining. I always wondered why they kept a large amount of BlueRoll up front... now i know why

 

[pastymuncher]

I also went to both, but not officially. Byron for 4 months twice, and we drove to Alive when they jokingly put an open invite to their dining in night on BFBS. It took a while before people even questioned who we were Alice was (I feel wrong even saying it)... definitely a better site in terms of how it'd aged and layout, but Byron had a sort of scruffy charm

I wasn't working with the radar, in the end they decided to give BV duties to the junior techy and the chef... who was the only chef staff present, therefore he never drove. It was good personally to be given essentially sole responsibility for them.

I think it was probably quite a different experience for me, the site was only 13 strong (8 military), so everyone had their own rooms etc. The bar traditions (brass nights etc) were still going on on my first trip however only 18 months later it had all but disappeared, although with the new accommodation being built it likely wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway. I recall people telling stories about years before, there were so many people up there that you had to share rooms!

The bottom site was condemned for most of my time there, but we did go down there to visit penguin point. By 2012 that gravel had well and truly gone and it was just a big line of enormous rocks/boulders all the way down. I went through 6 BVs in my time there, I felt quite bad about it but then I saw the pictures of the guys who flipped one, then flipped another trying to recover the first so that made me feel better

It sounds like it changed a lot between the time I was there and the time you were there. We had 26 personnel at both sites when I was there. Half a dozen officers, 4 NCO's, 4 civvies (Turners if I remember correctly) to maintain the power plants, water/waste and anything else that was outside our area of responsibility and the rest were corporals or below. The rooms were all two man rooms apart from the officers and NCO's who had single rooms in the other corridor. There were also a couple of spare rooms with four bunks in each for visitors. We had three chefs and because there were so few of us they excelled and the food we had was so much better than anywhere else. They really used to pull out all the stops on dining in nights. When I was at Alice we had sole responsibility for driving and maintaining the BV's but just two and a half years later when I was at Byron we had to call people up from Mount Pleasant MT section to service them. You had to be very careful going up and down Alice because of how steep it was meaning you had to stay pointed up or down the hill and not get sideways or there was a real chance of rolling. It was easy to get stuck halfway up as well, especially in Winter. We had to rescue other BV's with the "A-frame" several times. Byron's bar was bigger than Alice's but Alice's seemed more alive. At the end of the day it all depended on the group that was down there with you at the time. I believe they are remote unmanned sites these days.

I've also been to both Alice and Byron, Alice was meant to be a 2 day servicing trip on the AirCon units, turned into a week long stay due to bad weather and snow. Byron was pretty much the same, ended up PAT testing the entire site in 3 days then spent another 4 going to the gym or sitting in their 'Cinema Room' watching movies as there wasn't a great deal else I could do.

I have a fond memory of the Helicopter flight upto Alice... sitting in my seat watching the pilots mopping up water that was dripping onto the flight console because it was raining. I always wondered why they kept a large amount of BlueRoll up front... now i know why

We used to be responsible for the aircon units when I was there. It was a pain in the butt getting called out at silly o'clock in the morning, in blinding snow and blowing a gale because the aircon unit on one of the consoles had packed in and the console was overheating. It used to get really hot in those radar cabins when the aircon packed up. My first experience of Alice was onboard the Bristow S61 creeping up the mountain by following the terrain and in heavy cloud. One minute we were creeping along and then we landed. The skill of those pilots was amazing.

 

[ttaskmaster]

This is called living, and it's something that a lot of ex-military responders in this thread seem to struggle to grasp after their service.

It's not really living, though. It's just passing the time staring at the idiot box, while refusing to even get up whenever someone suggests an actual adventure. They'd rather put that effort into creating something even more banal on which to waste their lives.

Sounds horrible, who'd want to get shouted at everyday by some guy? Can't see why you'd sign up for that.

Sounds more like a lot of marriages and civvy jobs than anything military!

 

[Kreeeee]

.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Why is your preferred way to "waste away time" better than someone else's? Living, beyond just surviving, is all about enjoying the time you have on this planet.
As someone else mentioned, a lack of compassion for other people seems to be another common trait.

They don't enjoy it, though - They're forever complaining about it, how they're bored and there's nothing on the 1,000 Sky channels they have, how they live in the biggest city in the UK and there's nothing to do, how they have hundreds of clothing items but have nothing to wear....

Lack of compassion - In some ways, yes, but mainly those who don't do themselves any favours by knowingly creating their own misery to begin with.

 

[Kreeeee]

.

 

[dodg3rman]

Not just a generational or military thing - though it drives some of the ex-forces people at work up the wall because they have a different mindset. Too many of our drivers at work would too happily just leave the work vehicles in a state at the end of their shift for the next person to deal with if they could, etc. my upbringing is quite old fashioned in that respect in that it was drilled into me from a young age to take a degree of responsibility and not just leave **** for other people to clean up and I find people in general very hard to work around in that respect and often have to exercise restraint to not go nuclear when people can't even do the basics of it.

One of the simplest examples actually - due to this current situation we've been issued industrial type anti-viral wipes to clean equipment down after use - for a wonder most people are actually going along with doing it - but these come in a resealable box which explicitly in big letters tells you to reseal after use to keep them from drying out... how many people actually reseal after use? I think I counted like 3 out of nearly 60.

Good points and yes , responsibility and accountability are big triggers for me. 'We take the same wage home so why is it that I have to do my job and half of yours too while you slack off' ? Not doing a simple thing like resealing the pack is a classic example of how to get me off on one. This is why being retired is the perfect job for me

I operated a lot of heavy machinery while I was in and they took quite a bit of looking after so you had to be on top of it. Nothing could wind me up quicker than going to use a bit of kit and the last person hadn't serviced it and left it in rag order. Then I have to spend the start of my shift going through stuff I needn't have done. It often led to me then having to give someone a little 'counselling' session. All avoidable if people just did their jobs that they're paid to do.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Ex Royal Signals here, enjoyed my time and got to do and see some great things. Made many a great friendship and overall it shaped me into the man I am today (joined after leaving school).

 

[alexakasloth]

Nothing could wind me up quicker than going to use a bit of kit and the last person hadn't serviced it and left it in rag order.

That's a big annoyance for me, especially if it's broken, hasn't been reported and we are not able to fix it. Takes long enough as it is to fix some kit under contract.

 

[no_sleep_til]

i left an infantry mob after 12 years and civvy street is what you make it. first aid aside: "slap a field dressing on it and neck some brufen and you'll be fine' i didn't leave with any relevant skills which would carry over.
but you get out of life what you're prepared to put in. i did some time in college, got a different skillset and moved into a different trade.

and it is not difficult at all. a few mates i was in with did have dramas become civvifiied, but more had no problems and have settled into it easily and nicely.

i suppose it depends what sort of outfit you're in and how high you set your bar for when you leave. as a gravelbelly the bar is low! but, you also have an amazing "i can do anything" attitude. i mean; i would be sent away on courses for 2/4/6 weeks at a time and come back to battalion fully qualified at whatever it was. and that mindset is still with me today

having said all that; digging in at Sennybridge when the rain is horizontal is still the major terror i live with constantly

 

[Orangeade]

Very glad I quit the Sandhurst route now. Sounds like a bunch of psychos at the end of it.

Still had my fun whilst going on that path.

 

[FoxEye]

but, you also have an amazing "i can do anything" attitude. i mean; i would be sent away on courses for 2/4/6 weeks at a time and come back to battalion fully qualified at whatever it was. and that mindset is still with me today

Humour me here: in what can you be fully qualified in 2-6 weeks? I guess maybe I'm conflating "qualified" with "expert", but I'd be interested in your response nonetheless.

 

[SPG]

a lot of them are vocational. Not what you think in terms of learning like A level which 70% you will never use in life. They are very specific examples as

Track licence, HGV,
Radio shenanigans
Skiing (snow Queen was mega fun)
Learn a new bit of kit.
Loads of stuff really.

Like anything in life, you get the basics then learn by using it.

 

[alexakasloth]

Humour me here: in what can you be fully qualified in 2-6 weeks? I guess maybe I'm conflating "qualified" with "expert", but I'd be interested in your response nonetheless.

On top of what @SPG has said, in our trade there is a lot of upskilling - CNC, fitter/turner, Lloyds inspectons, different welding techniques because you've gone to a new unit with different kit - TIG coding, al. armour etc.

 

[EdGey]

6 years so far and I still feel very in touch with civilian life - I can't imagine it being particularly difficult to make the change. Might be a bit boring though.

 

[no_sleep_til]

Humour me here: in what can you be fully qualified in 2-6 weeks? I guess maybe I'm conflating "qualified" with "expert", but I'd be interested in your response nonetheless.

an eclectic bunch of course was my experience. signaller/sniper/sniper instructor/driving/vehicle recognition/heli handling/mortar & arty fire controller/MILAN (the old skool anti-tank system) operator/skill-at-arms/ to be honest i can't remember any others at the minute.

just to clarify something though; you wouldn't just get nominated out of the blue. personally i put applications in with pl & coy hq bods and was in the loop so to speak in relation to the courses/cadres i was after.

some of the them: signaller/sniper/sniper instr/MFC were specifically related to the pl i was in. the MILAN ops course again was a pl specific number

all of the courses are held at the specific training establishments. for example skill at arms is at Warminster and is run by the Small Arms School Corps. heli handler is run by Crab Air (RAF), MILAN was held at support weapons wing (part of the school of infantry), sniper & instructors is also held at Warminster. the MFC was run inhouse by instructors from our mortar pl, and an attached arty instructor. the specialist vehicle recognition was held at Weingarten (w/Germany) that was a pretty specialist course and the cats who ran it were almost all SF.

why don't you think somebody can do a short course and come away totally qualified? the army has a training establishment for every conceivable skill that soldiers are likely to need. and they are staffed by qualified instructors who specialise in their respective fields. and the army instructional technique works perfectly

 

[FoxEye]

why don't you think somebody can do a short course and come away totally qualified? the army has a training establishment for every conceivable skill that soldiers are likely to need. and they are staffed by qualified instructors who specialise in their respective fields. and the army instructional technique works perfectly

I didn't say you couldn't I'm just projecting a bit - the only way I can learn anything is by practicing over and over (and over and over) again By royally cocking something up 99 times so on the 100th time it just-about-works Don't think you'd want me operating a tank Anyway I got three good answers so thanks for humouring me