Being asked to pay for services of landscaper up front

cheesyboy · 22 May 2021 at 08:30

OP has already bought the materials.

fezster · 22 May 2021 at 08:35

He hasn't explicitly said that. The builder may have paid for them.

We chose a builder who seemed to have a good reputation and had the materials delivered to the house for fitting sometime April/May.

gailjon · 22 May 2021 at 08:38

fezster said:
He hasn't explicitly said that. The builder may have paid for them.

Yes, the materials are sitting at home all ready to go. Had a word with the company yesterday and they are looking into the invoice date/ VAT requirements.

Psycho Sonny · 22 May 2021 at 14:07

gailjon said:
Yes, the materials are sitting at home all ready to go. Had a word with the company yesterday and they are looking into the invoice date/ VAT requirements.

If they are only registering for Vat now. They must be new in the game.

How long have they been trading for?

Personally I'd want someone with lots and lots of experience. Decades personally rather than 4 months which is what this scenario sounds like. Otherwise why didn't they register for vat 10 years ago?

SupraWez · 22 May 2021 at 14:16

fezster said:
Very good point.

Shouldn't it also be the case that the builder wasn't able to reclaim the VAT on materials previously, but now can, so that should offset some of the additional VAT he's having to charge.

Eg.

Pre-VAT:
Materials - 5k
Labour - 5k

OP pays 10k.
Builder makes 5k.

Post-VAT:
Materials - 4.2k + 0.8k VAT (rounded)
Labour - 5k + 1k VAT.

OP pays 11k.
Builder makes 5.8k by claiming VAT back on materials.

The 1k vat he charged / collected on labour is not his.

EDIT: just seen you didn’t include it lol, my bad

Conan257 · 25 May 2021 at 12:54

Psycho Sonny said:
Personally I'd want someone with lots and lots of experience. Decades personally rather than 4 months which is what this scenario sounds like.

This policy stops any new traders from coming up, though. If we only employ companies who've been around for years we lose the enterprise of the individual and create conglomerates while destroying those who want to work for themselves.

Psycho Sonny · 25 May 2021 at 13:00

Conan257 said:
This policy stops any new traders from coming up, though. If we only employ companies who've been around for years we lose the enterprise of the individual and create conglomerates while destroying those who want to work for themselves.

Would you really risk your home, savings on a start up enterprise?

They have their time and place. You want someone well reviewed, experienced and not someone who is going to make mistakes, take twice as long and potentially have the work falling apart in a few years after they have taken the money and ran.

It's about minimising risk.

If an enterprising start up wants my business then give me a deal I cannot refuse. Be substantially cheaper after all your building a reputation if you're in it for the long haul.

fezster · 25 May 2021 at 13:43

Psycho Sonny said:
Would you really risk your home, savings on a start up enterprise?

They have their time and place. You want someone well reviewed, experienced and not someone who is going to make mistakes, take twice as long and potentially have the work falling apart in a few years after they have taken the money and ran.

It's about minimising risk.

If an enterprising start up wants my business then give me a deal I cannot refuse. Be substantially cheaper after all your building a reputation if you're in it for the long haul.

What you've just said is totally contradictory. You don't minimise risk by choosing the lowest quote possible - you're simply asking for the contractor to cut corners.

arknor · 25 May 2021 at 15:43

Just because it's a big company doesn't mean the employees are highly skilled...., the most motivated and hardworking will want to work for themselves

gailjon · 25 May 2021 at 18:19

I think one of the issues is that the company has being around for a long time, but he did tell me that over the past year he had taken on new staff to create another project team to expand how many jobs they could do. I would imagine this increased revenue and hence VAT registration required.

Psycho Sonny · 25 May 2021 at 21:21

gailjon said:
I think one of the issues is that the company has being around for a long time, but he did tell me that over the past year he had taken on new staff to create another project team to expand how many jobs they could do. I would imagine this increased revenue and hence VAT registration required.

He's a experienced builder who's turnover has only just went over £80k? Pull the other one.

Doing 3-4 tiny extensions would put him over the threshold. Does it take him 6 months to do a garage conversion?

flea.rider · 25 May 2021 at 22:46

you agreed a price ..do you have it in writing ? if so thats the price .. last yr we had a full rewiring .. cost £2300 untill i said how much for cash .. £1800 well worth it .. only every other job go's thru the books ..
seems a bit strange to me .. ?

200sols · 26 May 2021 at 06:15

flea.rider said:
you agreed a price ..do you have it in writing ? if so thats the price .. last yr we had a full rewiring .. cost £2300 untill i said how much for cash .. £1800 well worth it .. only every other job go's thru the books ..
seems a bit strange to me .. ?

Tax evasion. You must be so proud.

spoffle · 26 May 2021 at 06:53

200sols said:
Tax evasion. You must be so proud.

Oh no.

Anyway.

flea.rider · 26 May 2021 at 06:55

200sols said:
Tax evasion. You must be so proud.

me no .. what someone does with there business is up to them .. i just asked a question

Psycho Sonny · 26 May 2021 at 16:10

flea.rider said:
me no .. what someone does with there business is up to them .. i just asked a question

exactly this. flea hasn't done anything wrong it's up to the builder to charge and collect VAT not him.

potatolord · 26 May 2021 at 21:20

75% upfront is ridiculous, find someone else. That company has pain written all over them.

Semple · 27 May 2021 at 07:54

Psycho Sonny said:
exactly this. flea hasn't done anything wrong it's up to the builder to charge and collect VAT not him.

Oh come off it, you'd have to be an absolute idiot to not realise the builder wasn't putting it through the books so you could save a few quid.

This is why i'll be glad when a cashless society exists, it means people like that will have to make an honest living like the rest of us.

Psycho Sonny · 27 May 2021 at 07:59

Semple said:
Oh come off it, you'd have to be an absolute idiot to not realise the builder wasn't putting it through the books so you could save a few quid.

This is why i'll be glad when a cashless society exists, it means people like that will have to make an honest living like the rest of us.

So what? It's not his responsibility. It's the traders responsibility. It's him that is vat registered.

Flea technically hasn't done anything wrong. You can't take him to court. It's the trader who has done wrong here and he could be done for tax evasion not flea.

200sols · 27 May 2021 at 08:09

Psycho Sonny said:
So what? It's not his responsibility. It's the traders responsibility. It's him that is vat registered.

Flea technically hasn't done anything wrong. You can't take him to court. It's the trader who has done wrong here and he could be done for tax evasion not flea.

He specifically asked for a 'cash price' he knew exactly what he was doing.