Caporegime
Smoking is a good example. A pack a day smoker spends nigh on £310 a month on smokes. I have no sympathy for smokers who plead poverty. £310 could buy you a months worth of good food and children’s clothes.
Poverty rate among working households in UK is highest ever
- Thread starter HACO
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Caporegime
A significant proportion of it is learned helplessness but you'll get nuked from orbit if you try to argue it.
This is a fantastic book that everyone should read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_at_the_Bottom
Don
So you agree that it's a worthless measurement then?
Soldato
Is the 1k a month after rent or before? That sounds like quite a lot of free cash really.
There are a lot of people at the bottom who are effectively trapped at the bottom.
Maybe some of those people made bad choices in their past. But once you're down - really down - it can be hard/impossible to get back up.
A lot of opportunities are only available to those who start near the middle. Once you're working 40+ hours a week and still struggling just to pay the rent/buy food, your options for improving your lot in life are much reduced.
Don't forget we have a lot of in-work poverty, we're not just talking about people on the dole. Plenty of it down here.
Caporegime
After, I calculated it on the entitledto website.
Soldato
A non smoker would have quite a reasonable lifestyle on that then.
Soldato
There isn't one.
Where is the incentive to work?
How does that work if its a percentage then? If lets say 10% of the population are living below the poverty line, it doesn't matter if the population is 60m or 600m. 10% is 10%
Caporegime
Yes there is and there's still people that spend on "luxuries" like smoking and cable TV subscriptions.
If you give people the option of free stuff, the uneedy will also take it.
I'm playing devil's advocate here, I'm not a tyrant. I'm just saying.
you obviously don't understand statistics so ypur opinion on the definition of relative poverty is meaningless
Caporegime
I guess I'm way out of touch with the UK after 7 years but honestly how has this happened?
A working household can't find 2 or 3 quid a day to feed themselves?
I'm glad that I'm utterly out of touch.
A working household can't find 2 or 3 quid a day to feed themselves?
I'm glad that I'm utterly out of touch.
Your argument that it was the result of furlough was worthless.
Don
But if Furlough impacts it even though the evidence is, people across demographics have been able to save money hand over fist then as you agreed, as a measurement of poverty, “relative poverty” is a fairly useless one.
Think about it like this, are more people living in poverty if another group have become wealthier? Of course not, as a measurement, relative poverty is useless.
Don't get me wrong, working poverty is a problem that needs addressed (along with the benefit trap mentioned above), but measuring relative poverty is completely pointless as it's not something that has a practical solution beyond massaging the figures.
Associate
The calculation is any Household with income less than 60 per cent of the UK average are in poverty... regardless of wether they drive a lambo. Population goes up then number of people in poverty goes up. If the same calculation was performed in Monaco there would be people in poverty.
Soldato
Because a lot of working people are also on benefits perhaps. I'm sure there's a crossover point where it absolutely isn't worth getting out of bed in the morning to go to work.
edit. Just looked at Universal Credit, when you work and claim they take 63p in every pound you earn off your UC. Can't blame people for not bothering.
Don
Ironically, it also encourages the government to not give pay rises to people in public sector jobs who aren’t living in relative poverty as it would create more people who are as a consequence.
Though it does incentivise giving above inflation minimum wage increases.
Though it does incentivise giving above inflation minimum wage increases.
It happened 7 years ago as well. In fact relative poverty stopped declining around 2004 and has been pretty flat since then. Now some people will plead poverty while smoking 40 a day and running top SKY TV package but I am sure they are in the minority.