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FSR support for Nvidia graphics cards that are several years old?

Man of Honour
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i think maybe you missread my post and should perhaps read it again, the hint is MOST and again the point is the same most people want a choice and thats what we have with the current offering, a choice of 2 bad choices vs no choice is STILL a choice...

and yes edp is different, im still correct we wouldnt have any sync be it freesync of gsync if not for edp which is effecitvely opensync in laptop form.. regardless if its called edp or not. ps note i didnt say gsync i said opensync

quote below for you

"Interestingly, G-Sync for laptops makes use of the embedded DisplayPort (eDP) standard, a standardised interface for hooking up display panels directly to internal graphics cards. On the desktop, G-Sync can only be used with compatible monitors that contain Nvidia's G-Sync module.

According to Nvidia, the reason desktop displays need a G-Sync module is that it provides a much more controllable end-to-end solution for consistent performance. However, for G-Sync laptops, there's no module. Instead, the display is directly controlled by the GPU, which pulls double duty as both scaler and graphics card. G-Sync exploits this connection and the variable timing and panel self-refresh functionality built into eDP, effectively implementing G-Sync in software.

The more technically minded out there will note that this is very similar to how AMD's FreeSync works on the desktop, the tech being based DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync, which was in turn based on eDP."

"All if not most" implies a feature parity which in reality doesn't exist. Choice is great but that is another thing again.

G-Sync doesn't depend on eDP VRR to exist - eDP VRR was barely used in desktop space aside from some power reasons in laptops unrelated to how G-Sync and FreeSync are used but the deficiencies with V-Sync have been known about far longer but for much of that period a solution was difficult to produce by the likes of nVidia or AMD(ATI) without getting the OS developers, monitor manufacturers and VESA onboard. It was only when tech had moved on to the point nVidia could go about it their own way that it kicked things into gear. The FPGA on desktop monitors (before monitor manufacturers implemented VRR features in the scaler) wasn't just there for consistent performance - before that you couldn't adjust refresh rate on the fly on a desktop monitor without it going into a retraining mode for a second or two which obviously interrupts the display.

"G-Sync" on laptops if they don't have the FPGA is not the same as G-Sync on monitors that use the FPGA and has the same limits and lacking features as FreeSync in that regard - probably not many laptops which use the FPGA as it consumes quite a bit of extra power and produces extra heat so there is a trade off there.

eDP VRR was just a useful way to demonstrate proof of concept - while it works it is lacking in several respects due to having to repurpose features that were never intended to be used in this way.
 
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so he is not happy about something that is free and might work or might not work so he has nothing to lose



but to be fair I dont think it will do anything for anyone at 1080p



the actual reason why he's not happy:

developers were still extracting 1080p 45-60 fps out of this gpu.

now they may use FSR as a crutch and optimize around 720p 45-60 fps this level of GPU performance
 
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Soldato
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I think people are losing sight of the fact that FSR on older GPUs will make more demanding games playable. So upcoming demanding games with FSR are viable on a 1060 or RX 580.

Obvioulsy this depends on how it looks and if we are talking DLSS 1.0 level it will be a bust.
 
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"All if not most" implies a feature parity which in reality doesn't exist. Choice is great but that is another thing again.

G-Sync doesn't depend on eDP VRR to exist - eDP VRR was barely used in desktop space aside from some power reasons in laptops unrelated to how G-Sync and FreeSync are used but the deficiencies with V-Sync have been known about far longer but for much of that period a solution was difficult to produce by the likes of nVidia or AMD(ATI) without getting the OS developers, monitor manufacturers and VESA onboard. It was only when tech had moved on to the point nVidia could go about it their own way that it kicked things into gear. The FPGA on desktop monitors (before monitor manufacturers implemented VRR features in the scaler) wasn't just there for consistent performance - before that you couldn't adjust refresh rate on the fly on a desktop monitor without it going into a retraining mode for a second or two which obviously interrupts the display.

"G-Sync" on laptops if they don't have the FPGA is not the same as G-Sync on monitors that use the FPGA and has the same limits and lacking features as FreeSync in that regard - probably not many laptops which use the FPGA as it consumes quite a bit of extra power and produces extra heat so there is a trade off there.

eDP VRR was just a useful way to demonstrate proof of concept - while it works it is lacking in several respects due to having to repurpose features that were never intended to be used in this way.

not quite, it means if its not all then most of the features which is not quite the same as the same as... are we speaking different languages or something?

not saying gsync does depends on edp, im saying it was the beginning of sync tech, not sure how you are completely misunderstanding that.

i will let you argue with nvidia and amd on edp since your the ocuk expert. please feel free to twitter them and let me know how you get on..
 
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I think people are losing sight of the fact that FSR on older GPUs will make more demanding games playable. So upcoming demanding games with FSR are viable on a 1060 or RX 580.

Obvioulsy this depends on how it looks and if we are talking DLSS 1.0 level it will be a bust.
yep all of these oh but this oh but that arguments are just trying to detract that point. sad really. i dont see the point of either tech on something like a 3070 and up or 6700 (me personally im sure many do) but they have there uses i guess.
 
Man of Honour
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not quite, it means if its not all then most of the features which is not quite the same as the same as... are we speaking different languages or something?

not saying gsync does depends on edp, im saying it was the beginning of sync tech, not sure how you are completely misunderstanding that.

i will let you argue with nvidia and amd on edp since your the ocuk expert. please feel free to twitter them and let me know how you get on..

My understanding of "can do all if not most" is usually claiming parity but with a slight disclaimer in case it isn't 100% - lacking features like dynamic variable overdrive and relying on PSR, etc. isn't the end of the world but it some way from basically being an identical level of tech.

You seem to be trying to walk back on your claims a bit now. You strongly implied before G-Sync was just a rip-off of laptop eDP which is certainly not the case.
 
Soldato
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The majority of gamers do not have RTX 3080s /3090s, so DLSS and FSR will both be very useful to most, particularly those playing at higher resolutions or 120 FPS or more. AMD in particular knows their graphics cards have some catching up to do in performance (particularly in DLSS games), so they have a lot to gain. Image quality is not the be all and end all.
 
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My understanding of "can do all if not most" is usually claiming parity but with a slight disclaimer in case it isn't 100% - lacking features like dynamic variable overdrive and relying on PSR, etc. isn't the end of the world but it some way from basically being an identical level of tech.

You seem to be trying to walk back on your claims a bit now. You strongly implied before G-Sync was just a rip-off of laptop eDP which is certainly not the case.
not at all, just correcting your misunderstanding or maybe misinterpretation. freesync and gsync are that far off from a user pov.
 
Soldato
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So DLSS2 requires what's already going to be a reasonably powerful graphics card when looking at mass market. FSR can help pretty much any graphics card get a few more frames even if not to the same degree of dlss2.

When dlss2 can work on a 1060 then it'll be a competitor for fsr?
 
Soldato
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So DLSS2 requires what's already going to be a reasonably powerful graphics card when looking at mass market. FSR can help pretty much any graphics card get a few more frames even if not to the same degree of dlss2.

When dlss2 can work on a 1060 then it'll be a competitor for fsr?

Very strong points to be fair.

RTX cards are all very expensive and definitely not mainstream.
 
Soldato
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So DLSS2 requires what's already going to be a reasonably powerful graphics card when looking at mass market. FSR can help pretty much any graphics card get a few more frames even if not to the same degree of dlss2.

When dlss2 can work on a 1060 then it'll be a competitor for fsr?


FSR and dlss are not competitors

https://wccftech.com/no-amds-fsr-fi...-alternative-and-here-is-why-you-should-care/

and if you read up on the recent comments from AMd execs, they said they are actually not going to support the gtx1060 or any nvidia graphics card. The GTX1060 can run FSR but just to demo that it worked AMD did some work to get it running on that Nvidia GPU but that's it, no other games will run unless Nvidia puts work into it because AMD said they are only working on FSR support for consoles and their GPU
 
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FSR and dlss are not competitors

https://wccftech.com/no-amds-fsr-fi...-alternative-and-here-is-why-you-should-care/

and if you read up on the recent comments from AMd execs, they said they are actually not going to support the gtx1060 or any nvidia graphics card. The GTX1060 can run FSR but just to demo that it worked AMD did some work to get it running on that Nvidia GPU but that's it, no other games will run unless Nvidia puts work into it because AMD said they are only working on FSR support for consoles and their GPU

they do need to have this as a win the amd market share is tiny graphics cards wise

on my 3rd in a row now r9-390 - rx5700 - rx6700xt and have only ever owned two nvdia cards since the dawn of time

but I think the 6700 would have been a 3070 or 3080 if stock was available I really didnt enjoy my time with the 5700 it was good in the end but a right arse for ages
 
Soldato
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Seriously doubt fsr can match dlss which is based on machine learning. Expecting fsr to be just a basic upscaler.
I think it will work on 1000 series or later Nvidia GPUs and will boost performance by between 50-100% on performance mode. Upscaling a lower res internal image shouldn't be too difficult for AMD, it sounds much more simple than DLSS's machine learning approach (and less time consuming and easier for devs to implement).

I don't think it will look great on output resolutions below 4k, but it's still very important, because 4K is the resolution the latest consoles aimed to support. I don't think it will see widespread use on consoles until 2022, as well as PC game ports. We might see some PC game patches for FSR within weeks though. Console games are a larger slice of games industry revenue than PC, but both are dwarfed by the growth in mobile games, since 2016:
https://newzoo.com/wp-content/uploa...s_Market_2012-2021_per_Segment-1-1536x864.png
 
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Man of Honour
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Seriously doubt fsr can match dlss which is based on machine learning. Expecting fsr to be just a basic upscaler.

Personally I think DLSS leans too much on the ideology of using AI to reconstruct missing information, though it can be useful for pushing the boundaries of that tech. Using temporal/spatial data with a small amount of AI to fill in missing detail IMO produces a better result as you don't get the artefacts the same and more consistency.
 
Man of Honour
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not at all, just correcting your misunderstanding or maybe misinterpretation. freesync and gsync are that far off from a user pov.

Your original post said nothing about it being end user POV - if that was the intention of your post then stuff about it coming from laptops is kind of irrelevant to the post.
 
Soldato
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@henson0115 @Rroff Thing is though Freesync can do variable overdrive, but for some reason or another, the list of enabled monitors is less than a hand full last I checked. I also think it's worth remembering that Variable overdrive on its own is not a game-changer when most panels are **** these days. It certainly didn't save the early Acer VA ultrawide monitors on the market from being poor in the response department just as there are plenty of Freesync enabled panels that also belong in the trash.
 
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Your original post said nothing about it being end user POV - if that was the intention of your post then stuff about it coming from laptops is kind of irrelevant to the post.
if we are not talking about from a user pov what are we talking about? at the end of the day end users use the tech so whats the point of this if we arnt talking about from that pov. the point about laptops is that all of gsync and freesync tech comes from edp which is now basically open sync....

my original post just to remind you:

"of course there is, im outlining and open sync can do all if not most of what gsync can do. funnily enough gsync comes from opensync laptops ;)

again id rather have a choice of 2 options than no option at all. regardless again if one is better or not its still a choice."

not sure where you going with this Rroff.. but i think the freesync gsync stuff has detractred from this thread enough dont you?


@Phixsator you are right.
 
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