The New European Super (borefest) League

[mid_gen]

UEFA, the saviours of football, have just announced ticket details for the Europa League final. Despite being in the middle of a pandemic and the 4 semi finalists being from UK, Spain & Italy, they've decided to push ahead with plans to host the final in Poland. Obviously that makes perfect sense - you really need thousands of people traveling around Europe at times like these.

Predictably there will be a reduced capacity for the final of just 9500. Of that 9500, UEFA have very generously allowed 4000 supporters to attend, with the other 5500 seats going to UEFA.

Where does the UEFA allocation go? It's not necessarily a bad thing.

England rugby for instance, a large portion of England matchday tickets are allocated to the RFU, which are then distributed to the grassroots level clubs and made available to club members.

 

[fez]

I agree with the essence of this but to play devil's advocate, because keepers are allowed to use their hands/arms to play the ball it means they will sometimes go for the ball in ways that no outfield player can and consequently there's more chance of certain types of collision. E.g. if there's an aerial ball they might go to punch it and catch a forward with a glancing blow- an outfield player would have no reasonable excuse for leading with an arm, whereas a keeper would.

Thats fine and I don't think many people have an issue with that. The problem is we aren't talking about those incidents. We're talking about keepers flying out to tackle a player with their studs up in a scissor shape. The sort of thing that would be a red 9/10 outfield. We're talking about keepers coming to catch the ball and jumping into the air with their knees pointed straight forward ready to clatter any player who competes for the ball.

 

[BaZ87]

To be fair they award finals based on whatever criteria, the final is being played this month so it would be a bit unfair on host cities to suddenly backtrack at the last minute. Heck, the final a couple of years back was Arsenal-Chelsea and yet two teams from London played in Timbuktu (Azerbaijan).

Edit: Just read the stadium for this year was actually supposed to host it last season, but it got put back due to Covid, so they're already a year late.

We're still in the middle of a pandemic. Hosting this game in Poland and expecting thousands of supporters to fly across Europe is plain stupid. Wait a few days and we could end up with an all English final and you can hold the game in England without the need of mass travel. It will also save supporters huge amounts of money - UEFA are for the fans afterall.

UEFA's criteria for hosting these finals is a crock of **** anyway. They preach about being for the fans but their actions are anything but that. Holding a European final in Azerbaijan and expecting supporters to spend literally thousands of pounds to attend, isn't a decision taken for the fans. Neither was holding the 2018 CL final in Kiev when there wasn't enough flights or hotel rooms for supporters, leading to supporters again having to pay £1000s to attend. Liverpool supporters were hiring a private plane as it worked out cheaper than getting regular flights and paying for hotels! And then less than half the stadium is allocated to supporters.

Where does the UEFA allocation go? It's not necessarily a bad thing.

England rugby for instance, a large portion of England matchday tickets are allocated to the RFU, which are then distributed to the grassroots level clubs and made available to club members.

They go to everybody and anybody. UEFA will sell off a percentage of them, the majority of which will end up in the hands of touts who will then sell them on for 10x their value. UEFA then give a cut to all the different clubs that entered the competition, sponsors and the host City. I appreciate that they need to give some tickets away to these various groups but 60% of the stadium? It takes the ****, especially when a large amount of that 60% end up being sold on for sky high prices.

 

[inogen]

They go to everybody and anybody. UEFA will sell off a percentage of them, the majority of which will end up in the hands of touts who will then sell them on for 10x their value. UEFA then give a cut to all the different clubs that entered the competition, sponsors and the host City. I appreciate that they need to give some tickets away to these various groups but 60% of the stadium? It takes the ****, especially when a large amount of that 60% end up being sold on for sky high prices.

I went to the Roma Vs Liverpool Semi a few seasons ago on a UEFA ticket. Was absolute madness for me as it meant I wasn't in with the Liverpool fans and had to make my own way into the stadium with no escort. Just me and my mate who got the tickets. They also didn't have our names on (UEFAs don't, they just say UEFA) so we got stopped at every barrier and quizzed, so everyone within earshot knew we were English. I'm 6'4" so also very easy to spot in a crowd. We got the Liverpool bus to the stadium, because we were told NOT to travel alone, then we had to make our way around the whole circumference of the stadium to get to our stand as you can't walk the short route. part of the stadium outskirt is blocked by rock/cliff. Our stand was next to the Liverpool end so we had to walk literally the whole way around the stadium, past the Curva Sud etc.

UEFA had a whole stand, I'd say it was 50/50 in there, locals who had wangled and bought tickets and loads of corporate trippers. A few people like us. Not many though. Mastercard had about 4 coach loads of people. Loads of Japanese. 99% of the non locals were bussed in and out. We got left in the car park... in the dark.

These tickets were legitimately obtained. My mate was working for a company who were working with UEFA at the time. I certainly wouldn't do it again. Not in Italy anyway. I'd go for one for a final though.

 

[HangTime]

We're still in the middle of a pandemic. Hosting this game in Poland and expecting thousands of supporters to fly across Europe is plain stupid. Wait a few days and we could end up with an all English final and you can hold the game in England without the need of mass travel. It will also save supporters huge amounts of money - UEFA are for the fans afterall.

The thing is with 3 different nations in the semifinals, even if it was feasible to move final, where would they move it to? Unless both English teams qualify, which isn't known at the time of writing, it's going to involve fans travelling internationally. And even if it was two English teams playing in England, only 4000 tickets are going to fans, the majority are UEFA tickets, so whilst it would reduce travel slightly, you'd assume the majority of the 58% going to non-supporters would be travelling internationally.
You've then got the issue of where to host it, with English social distancing rules you need a massive stadium like Wembley, which is already hosting loads of events around then like EFL playoff finals, Non-league finals etc so logistically it could be difficult to get everything ready in between other events given the guidelines. Realistically Old Trafford and Emirates, two of the other viable big stadia are out of the question for obvious reasons. Maybe the Olympic stadium could work.
And if it's not two English teams, it would be really hard to justify moving it to one of the two nations participating without being seen to give them an advantage - so then you are just moving the problem from Poland to some other random country.

UEFA's criteria for hosting these finals is a crock of **** anyway. They preach about being for the fans but their actions are anything but that. Holding a European final in Azerbaijan and expecting supporters to spend literally thousands of pounds to attend, isn't a decision taken for the fans. Neither was holding the 2018 CL final in Kiev when there wasn't enough flights or hotel rooms for supporters, leading to supporters again having to pay £1000s to attend. Liverpool supporters were hiring a private plane as it worked out cheaper than getting regular flights and paying for hotels! And then less than half the stadium is allocated to supporters.

I think everyone agrees on this, it's just what they have to do financially I assume, share the love around different nations, placate various sponsors etc etc.

They go to everybody and anybody. UEFA will sell off a percentage of them, the majority of which will end up in the hands of touts who will then sell them on for 10x their value. UEFA then give a cut to all the different clubs that entered the competition, sponsors and the host City. I appreciate that they need to give some tickets away to these various groups but 60% of the stadium? It takes the ****, especially when a large amount of that 60% end up being sold on for sky high prices.

Considering the FA Cup probably has fewer stakeholders than the CL, the English FA aren't much better. Wembley is a 90000 stadium and the FA Cup final normally has 25k tickets per club with 40k tickets going to other places. This season they are allocating 6250 per club with 9500 going elsewhere. So about 45% don't go to fans of the participants. I've been able to get tickets to FA Cup Semifinal before because a much higher proportion go to supporters, but the Final is impossible.

 

[BaZ87]

The thing is with 3 different nations in the semifinals, even if it was feasible to move final, where would they move it to?......

As I said, wait a couple of days and make a final call once you know which sides will be in the final. They could do all the preparations in the background and as soon as the semi finals are over they can announce where the final is being held. Nearly 3 weeks is more than enough time, especially if they're preparing everything prior to this anywhere.

As for where to host the final, the UK is the most logical choice. It's highly likely that at least one finalist will be from England and even if Arsenal weren't to make it, the UK would be much more convenient (and I assume cheaper) for Villarreal supporters. There's more than enough stadiums in the UK that could hold 9500 supporters even with social distancing rules - OT (if Utd don't make the final), the Emirates (if Arsenal don't), the Olympic Stadium, the new Spurs stadium, the Millenium stadium, Anfield, Stamford Bridge, St James Park.

Regarding tickets that don't go to the two finalists and these people traveling to the UK (or wherever), that's just another reason why we shouldn't be giving so many tickets away to these groups in this season in particular. We all agree, giving 60% of the stadium to these 3rd parties is mad at the best of times but in the middle of a pandemic it's ridiculous. Give more of these tickets to the two finalists and if the final is being held in the country of at least one of the finalists, you're massively reducing the travel required.

Finally on the point about holding the final in the country of one of the finalists, that can and does happen already. Utd played Barca at Wembley some years back, Liverpool played a European final at Wembley too. Liverpool even played the European Cup final vs Roma in Rome. It's obviously not ideal but if a Utd - Villarreal final was held at Spurs stadium, would there be any real advantage to Utd? UEFA rules dictate that both sides have to arrive in the host city x days before the game and it's not as if travel time would be massively different.

 

[HangTime]

The point about holding a final in the country of the finalists, I'm well aware that happens already - but only by chance, not by design when the finalists are already known. If you decide the final location before a ball is kicked, and a team from that nation reaches the final, that's one thing. You have to decide the location well in advance for planning/sponsorship/etc purposes and then it comes down to whether teams from that country are good enough to qualify or not. If you wait for the finalists to be known, and then move the venue from a neutral venue to one that favours one team, that leaves yourself massively open to accusations of favouritism, and will further antagonise fans of the team that doesn't benefit. It's arguably even more unfair during a pandemic when travel restrictions are in force, because you're making it incredibly easy for fans of one team at a point in time when it is very difficult for the other team.

On the stadium, it's not a question of whether a ground can hold 9500 fans, it's whether a stadium can hold 9500 fans whilst adhering to current restrictions in England. The FA cup final for example is being played at less than 25% of normal capacity, and that is a massively concession from the current restrictions that has taken some planning.
edit: it looks like the Premier league is allowing up to 10k fans in for their pilot, so maybe it's possible.

 

[BaZ87]

In an ideal situation you would decide the location well in advance but we're not in that and as journalists are stating on twitter now, UEFA are prepared to move the CL final from Istanbul should there be a covid spike, so it is possible. From a sporting pov, I don't see the advantage of hosting a Utd - Villarreal final in London for any side. There would be little difference in travel time etc and both sides would be required to stay in London for the same amout of time. Yes, it would be easier for Utd supporters than Villarreal supporters but it would still be better for Villarreal supporters than if they were asked to travel to Poland.

And regarding the stadium situation, I know. The stadiums I put forward are all ones that shouldn't have any issue holding 9500 supporters under the current regulations. The final home games of the PL season are capped at 10k or 25% capacity (whichever is lower iinm) and I know that both Liverpool and Villa have already announced they'll be having 10k spectators for their final home games. There's no shortage of stadiums that could host the final in the UK.

 

[chrcoluk]

The fine is a lol.

 

[BaZ87]

UEFA have confirmed that the CL final will be moved from Istanbul to Porto. Why didn't UEFA move the final to Wembley seeing as there are 2 English finalists? All the UEFA suits and sponsors would be required to quarantine if the final was in the UK. UEFA for the fans!!

 

[IronSpider]

UEFA have confirmed that the CL final will be moved from Istanbul to Porto. Why didn't UEFA move the final to Wembley seeing as there are 2 English finalists? All the UEFA suits and sponsors would be required to quarantine if the final was in the UK. UEFA for the fans!!

As good as it sound to host it in the uk, the fans going would be uncontrollable. Maybe behind the scenes no one fancied a hundred thousand fans without tickets gathering? In that case they may as well open it up to a full stadium as all the people would gather anyway.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

UEFA have confirmed that the CL final will be moved from Istanbul to Porto. Why didn't UEFA move the final to Wembley seeing as there are 2 English finalists? All the UEFA suits and sponsors would be required to quarantine if the final was in the UK. UEFA for the fans!!

It's shameful UEFA think they're above the global efforts to prevent COVID spreading. Glad our government refused.

 

[GIBURROWS]

So Portugal might not let Brits in for the final and if they do it will be a 24 hour turn around and nothing more.

 

[fez]

It's shameful UEFA think they're above the global efforts to prevent COVID spreading. Glad our government refused.

I mean, the rich kind of are...

 

[Kenai]

Some Premier League fines incoming...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57414151

The six Premier League clubs involved in the European Super League (ESL) are set to be fined over £20m between them.

Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea Manchester City, Tottenham and Arsenal wanted to form a breakaway league, a plan that was widely criticised across football and by the UK government.

Further cash penalties and points deductions will be applied should they attempt a similar project again.

It is understood the fines will help fund grassroots and community projects.

BBC Sport understands Manchester United's owners the Glazer family and Liverpool owners Fenway Sports Group will pay the fine rather than their clubs.

 

[watercooledman]

bloody right too.

 

[fez]

I love a good fine for the uber wealthy. I feel like they probably just laugh when someone tries to fine them. When was the last time a fine actually did anything to any large company or individual. £3-4m is an accounting error in these guys world.

The "future punishments" if they do it again will also be completely meaningless when then actually go to do it. They were talking about a £200m+ signing on bonus for each club when the SL was still a thing. The PL won't fine and deduct points anyway because they need the big clubs to make the PL relevant.

It will happen in the next 10 years I reckon.

 

[The Running Man]

The court backs the request made by the promoters of the European Super League, dismisses Uefa's appeal, and confirms its warning to Uefa that failure to comply with its ruling shall result in fines and potential criminal liability," the clubs said.

"The case will be assessed by the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg, which shall review Uefa's monopolistic position over European football."

Thank god, as I've said over and over,since when dud uefa have a god given.right to dictate or punishment clubs being able to deploy their players in any competitions they see fit?

ESL IS BACK ON GUYS

 

[MissChief]

Thank god, as I've said over and over,since when dud uefa have a god given.right to dictate or punishment clubs being able to deploy their players in any competitions they see fit?

ESL IS BACK ON GUYS

While that is true, UEFA, and therefore FIFA can decide they won't accept registration from any club taking part in these competitions. Will these players mind not playing for their countries at Euros and World Cups? And, lets be honest, it's not about sticking it to UEFA and being upset about the way football is run, it's pure, unadulterated GREED and nothing else. Barca and Real are flat broke. Like if they were companies that didn't have the backing of national banks to keep them afloat they'd go bust and be wound up by the courts. That they persisted with the very idea of the ESL despite condemnation from fans and politicians says they NEED this to work.

 

[ik9000]

I'd like to see what the courts make of breech of contract claims against the clubs too. They have signed up to terms that agree exclusivity so I'm confused why there is this apparent statement about uefa and monopoly etc. If they're just singling out competition law it seems a bit weird the courts aren't at some point going to look at other aspects too.

I remain confused why anyone thinks a super League is in any way a good thing.