Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults

[tenofspades]

All the demographics are represented. Except under-18s of course. The "problem" remains that those who work don't vote as much as those who are retired. The solution shouldn't be to do with those who do vote but with those who don't. Why don't more working people vote? Fix that before anything else.

I wonder if postal voting should be the default.

 

[413x]

Clearly that is their solution. It has to go before 2050 and it cripples the country financially. Nobody will come clean and say this though.

They dont even need to means test it. Just have a tax code where if you earn over a certain amount you pay 100% tax on your state pension element or combined with some sliding scale to it.

Eg. From £20k to £50k you are increasingly taxed on your state pension until at £50k it has full 100% tax on it.

Means testing is complicated and expensive.

Biggest issue though will be convincing the voting public since the people directly affected have the biggest voting turnout at 85% and will be making up 60% of the votes in any GE by 2050.

The closer you leave it to 2050 to do something distract, the less chance you will get voted in or remain in power unless both big parties agree to it and both offer the same thing.

It has to go agreed.
The funds simply won't be there.
But all the parties will be in the same boat.

It's why the recent triple lock is so cruel. More you give now the bigger the cliff edge will be later.

Issue will be how do you stop everyone in the middle just burning all thier wealth to get to the 'state funded'. Because if you take to much away it will be that middle who get boned.

 

[cheesyboy]

I wonder if postal voting should be the default.

Should be an app

 

[tenofspades]

463 post of the same thing being said lol
Why can't cheesy accept the reasonable answer that if more young people got up and used their vote they would more than likely get their way?
I have the feeling it's only a very vocal minority of young people that actually care about political issues and the rest are happy just making the best of a bad world?
I've never voted for anything myself, due to just being apathetic about the whole thing.

Interesting, I wonder if people who are apathetic they could choose to be pooled into another option. Like 'anyone but this party', or 'same vote as my age group'.

 

[413x]

I totally get why people vote. I don't really want to vote. But I know feel I have to. I should vote. I have to vote for the least bad party.

Having to vote for someone you disagree with least isn't appealing.

Also, knowing your vote doesn't matter (living in a safe seat) further dissuades you.

I think it's totally valid to not vote. Because our system is garbage. And although it's dangerous viewpoint , perhaps it is the only way to envoke real change

 

[Hagar]

Should be an app

That would skew to the younger demographics.

I have a phone that does not do apps. Is rarely on my person, just used for recieving messages and answer machine duties.

 

[cheesyboy]

That would skew to the younger demographics.

I have a phone that does not do apps. Is rarely on my person, just used for recieving messages and answer machine duties.

I don't mean exclusively by app. But it should be an option for all voters.

As you say, it might help youth turnout so I wonder how much appetite there would be for it...

 

[413x]

I don't mean exclusively by app. But it should be an option for all voters.

As you say, it might help youth turnout so I wonder how much appetite there would be for it...

I'd appsolutely sign up to this

 

[Narj]

That would skew to the younger demographics.

I have a phone that does not do apps. Is rarely on my person, just used for recieving messages and answer machine duties.

I'd be a bit worried about using an app what with the possibility of it being hacked or abused IMO. It'd need to tie in to a photo-ID or something too.

Done right I suppose it's a complementary option but I don't trust the government to deliver secure and robust IT projects. You should have to get off your bum IMO and that's it - postal votes only in exceptional circumstances given how open to abuse those are too.

 

[Pho]

I 100% agree there needs to be an app. It would need to be an alternative method to in-person / the postal vote for a few years. Then we can phase out the antiquated voting methods over time to be fully digital.

I find it funny how long it took to count the US election results and how much labour it took to count it all. If it were all digital it could have been called in seconds after the votes closed

 

[Secret_Window]

I 100% agree there needs to be an app. It would need to be an alternative method to in-person / the postal vote for a few years. Then we can phase out the antiquated voting methods over time to be fully digital.

I find it funny how long it took to count the US election results and how much labour it took to count it all. If it were all digital it could have been called in seconds after the votes closed

I doubt the Republicans/Conservatives would ever want/allow that though.

 

[Demon]

Online voting/app would certainly get my vote (Pun intended) and be an improvement and can't see any issues with our government pushing for that, although it would need to be staged such that the older methods are removed over time..

However, saying all that, this entire subject has only come up because some cry babies can't accept the outcome of the last couple of GE's and are just salty/acting all entitled..

The retired population has always been there, and who knows, in the next GE or one after that they may well align with the younger vote again.

The issue with crying about it unnecessarily is it's quite easy to start an argument for making any demographic less relevant, but that's not conducive to democracy now is it..


You also know that whilst now the whiners feel a digital vote method would favour them and are already saying how the evil tories won't let this happen would be the very first to claim voter fraud themselves if future 'digital' elections didn't go their way and start pulling up skewed stats to try to marginalise entire demographic groups that they can 'blame' for the incorrect outcome..

 

[chrcoluk]

Because governments know pensioners decide elections, any cut backs on pension spending are aimed at reducing for future generations, such as raising retirement age and pushing people towards private pension pots.

I dont think there is really an obvious solution other than changing the voting system and getting younger people to vote more in elections, because if we ever get to the point pensioners are no longer everything at an election, then governance decisions may change.

It isnt just age differences, its also tory safe seats vs labour safe seats, marginal seats etc., marginal seats tend to do well with focus from parties as the parties know those are the battlegrounds.

For me the first step in all this is to move to PR, but our powers that be are heavily resisting it.

 

[ianh]

As you say, it might help youth turnout so I wonder how much appetite there would be for it...

If so many of the youth of today can't be bothered to register to vote using the current GOV.UK website then why would you think that they suddenly might be eager to register over an app instead, which would require the same level of effort as the website they could (but don't) currently use?

The big benefit would be that, if they can be bothered to register (something many currently don't do) then the actual voting process might be easier rather than going to a polling station. However the problem yet again isn't that voting is too hard currently, it's that lots of people are either happy to go with the flow, just don't care or can't be bothered so developing "an app" costing millions and ensuring it's secure just won't change enough of the non-voters into being voters to make the whole thing worthwhile.

 

[Tefal]

I 100% agree there needs to be an app. It would need to be an alternative method to in-person / the postal vote for a few years. Then we can phase out the antiquated voting methods over time to be fully digital.

I find it funny how long it took to count the US election results and how much labour it took to count it all. If it were all digital it could have been called in seconds after the votes closed

Thats a security feature.

It takes ages and massive amounts of labour.

So trying to influence it maliciously is almost impossible because of the scale.

Digital systems don't have this a very limited number of people are involved in a very closed, very technical process


50,000,000 pieces of paper on the other hand would be hard to influence without having to involve haulage

 

[Tefal]

If so many of the youth of today can't be bothered to register to vote using the current GOV.UK website then why would you think that they suddenly might be eager to register over an app instead, which would require the same level of effort as the website they could (but don't) currently use?

The big benefit would be that, if they can be bothered to register (something many currently don't do) then the actual voting process might be easier rather than going to a polling station. However the problem yet again isn't that voting is too hard currently, it's that lots of people are either happy to go with the flow, just don't care or can't be bothered so developing "an app" costing millions and ensuring it's secure just won't change enough of the non-voters into being voters to make the whole thing worthwhile.

Because old people think "an app" automatically makes something popular with people younger than them.

 

[checjb]

I think it's totally valid to not vote. Because our system is garbage. And although it's dangerous viewpoint , perhaps it is the only way to envoke real change

But why would the politicians change anything? You don't vote, therefore you are invisible and powerless. Those who disagree with you won't care. Those you might support don't know you exist because you have no voice in the system. Therefore, nothing will change.

 

[413x]

But why would the politicians change anything? You don't vote, therefore you are invisible and powerless. Those who disagree with you won't care. Those you might support don't know you exist because you have no voice in the system. Therefore, nothing will change.

If enough people don't vote fringe parties get in. And they do know. They k ow the proportion of non voters.

Maybe if that demographic gets big enough it will be an appealing target for a party.

 

[BigStevieTT]

Prob not the right place to discuss politics, but FWIW the whole system is bad. If you can afford to run, then you're not fit to represent the electorate.
But as long as we can all afford new PCs, then... it's OK, I guess?

 

[checjb]

If enough people don't vote fringe parties get in. And they do know. They k ow the proportion of non voters.

An interesting idea. The 2001 general election had the lowest overall turnout since 1945 (59.4%) but, strangely, the party that won wasn't a fringe party.