Games advice?

[Daniel John Powell]

Hello, Forum, my name is Daniel. Pardon me as my English is written and my reading skills may be poor. Let me try this...

I wonder as I'm researching to buy a custom PC to do myself for first time or play safe I will go into shop and order and ask they do build for me, I am a bit confused; which is important as there are 3 different types of games.

1) calculate focus games
Ksp and football manager, total war, hoi, civ-g type so single core with high GHz is mattered important CPU?

2) graphic focus games
Doom and f1, rally, call of duty type, elite dangerous, important as GPU to focus FPS performance

3) hybrid games
ksp 2? Something like this

So my question is. Maybe I answer to myself question, as my computer is not this great.

Ie; 4 cores 5ghz will always that 6 cores GHz.5 ghz beat 8 cores 4ghz? In group 1 another way if use Group 2? In reversed order.

L2/L3 cache doesn't matter in Group 1 but matters in group 2? Or neither as it actually for it is for a video editor or picture editor, graphic designer, code writing?

Right? Or Wrong?

So next question.

Mods or maps with lots of factors/units is important to use RAM? And help fast calculated for CPU? Smooth GPU Or it was SSD

SSD help fast read data for CPU and GPU? Better over HHDD?

So CPU not important yet important it is aid fps boost to GPU? With basic calculated the or GPU in background running? In group g,ames 2 vs group 1 as they can GPU slow gpu card will maximise games fps anyway as use low graphic speed will maximum out graphic of games.

Once answer so I will send the spec which I will go for.

I was considering wait for next year's as DDR5 will help games much better in terms of RAM?

 

[Haze]

Cool story bro, it's just a pc ffs, over analysing things much....

 

[Grimley]

Hello
How much do you want to spend?

 

[The_Arbiter]

Cool story bro, it's just a pc ffs, over analysing things much....

This is the result of the industry marketing and enthusiasts getting nitty and gritty, and then it becoming mainstream.

OP, most of your train of thought is wrong. You can't pin point spec numbers and put them in some order to achieve the best purchase. Take CPU cache, the way it's accessed and shared significanty affects how the CPU performs.

I had similar questions i remember when i first built many years ago. Firstly you want a budget,
then you want to know what you're using the PC for,
how new software/games are you're using,
if you want to future proof at all.

Building yourself is fun and easy. It's a good learning experience. I recommend you do this if you're interested in the hardware world and want to tinker about.

I appreciate you might be trying to save money by getting the most optimal setup, but quite frankly this is impossible right now. The GPU prices are 90%+ inflated right now. Even 2nd hand isn't ideal. For playing modern games, Series S is the best value.

Unless you're on a very tight budget or have tight case, forget about SSHD. Just get a SSD for O/S, then go from there.

Also forget about DDR5 right now.

 

[Daniel John Powell]

Hello
How much do you want to spend?

Minimum 900 to maximum 1200

This is the result of the industry marketing and enthusiasts getting nitty and gritty, and then it becoming mainstream.

OP, most of your train of thought is wrong. You can't pin point spec numbers and put them in some order to achieve the best purchase. Take CPU cache, the way it's accessed and shared significanty affects how the CPU performs.

I had similar questions i remember when i first built many years ago. Firstly you want a budget,
then you want to know what you're using the PC for,
how new software/games are you're using,
if you want to future proof at all.

Building yourself is fun and easy. It's a good learning experience. I recommend you do this if you're interested in the hardware world and want to tinker about.

I appreciate you might be trying to save money by getting the most optimal setup, but quite frankly this is impossible right now. The GPU prices are 90%+ inflated right now. Even 2nd hand isn't ideal. For playing modern games, Series S is the best value.

Unless you're on a very tight budget or have tight case, forget about SSHD. Just get an SSD for O/S, then go from there.
,
Also forget about DDR5 right now.

Ok, I will try to build myself I will look at YouTube or ask friends who know how to come by to help me out. To learn new skills and fun

Thanks for the reply to help out I appreciate you understand where I come from as I think too much and the question about this make me think should do this or here.

As I got very good laptop MSI raider g63;

notice something odd when I played a football manager and hoi4, which I got own running bit slow that I look up and realise it is ghz, matter not cores.

That how rifles myself to ask me a question - which important go for.

That I play bannerlord and elite dangerous, many they very smooth not problem.

I decide to buy a PC tower for myself to save money and easy to upgrade and big monitor.

Ok, I will not take too seriously market to make me distracted

Yes, futureproof is my priority - maybe plan b give it to my son so he can play good games once I got a big upgrade In future - save my money. As my son start like play PC more that consoles. Mainly cos mods

Forget DDR5 ok

Yes the price of GPU and CPU makes me not sure which I want to go for a moment.

GPU I happy to focus to play 2k and 120hz monitor (the main reason, is a mouse, not fps) that meant any games around 60 fps is good enough,

CPU I would happy go for 6 or 8 cores.

2x8gb 3200mhz DDR4 for now that add other 2x8gb 3200mhz DDR4 in future.

 

[Tetras]

Hello, Forum, my name is Daniel. Pardon me as my English is written and my reading skills may be poor. Let me try this...

I wonder as I'm researching to buy a custom PC to do myself for first time or play safe I will go into shop and order and ask they do build for me, I am a bit confused; which is important as there are 3 different types of games.

1) calculate focus games
Ksp and football manager, total war, hoi, civ-g type so single core with high GHz is mattered important CPU?

2) graphic focus games
Doom and f1, rally, call of duty type, elite dangerous, important as GPU to focus FPS performance

3) hybrid games
ksp 2? Something like this

So my question is. Maybe I answer to myself question, as my computer is not this great.

Ie; 4 cores 5ghz will always that 6 cores GHz.5 ghz beat 8 cores 4ghz? In group 1 another way if use Group 2? In reversed order.

L2/L3 cache doesn't matter in Group 1 but matters in group 2? Or neither as it actually for it is for a video editor or picture editor, graphic designer, code writing?

Right? Or Wrong?

So next question.

Mods or maps with lots of factors/units is important to use RAM? And help fast calculated for CPU? Smooth GPU Or it was SSD

SSD help fast read data for CPU and GPU? Better over HHDD?

So CPU not important yet important it is aid fps boost to GPU? With basic calculated the or GPU in background running? In group g,ames 2 vs group 1 as they can GPU slow gpu card will maximise games fps anyway as use low graphic speed will maximum out graphic of games.

Once answer so I will send the spec which I will go for.

I was considering wait for next year's as DDR5 will help games much better in terms of RAM?

Generally speaking, older games will rely more on single core (or thread) performance (Ghz is relevant to that), but you shouldn't make a decision based on this, because modern CPUs continue to improve their single core performance, alongside having more cores.

Large maps and mods will usually need more RAM, yes. SSD will be of secondary importance.

The cache size can't be directly compared between CPUs with different architecture, because the CPU's performance depends on other things too (Ryzen was given a large cache primarily for gaming performance, since it has worse memory latency compared to Intel).

For workstation tasks you need to check benchmarks, but generally speaking, Ryzen CPUs are faster than Intel CPUs here, because they have superior multi-threading performance. Intel's 11th/12th gen has closed the gap. With Zen 2 and earlier, there are some cases (usually with older, primarily single thread software) where high-end Intel CPUs are faster.

If you play a lot of older games, I'd buy a CPU with good single core performance and a high boost clock, like the Ryzen 5600X or 5800X.

For GPU, group 1 games are significantly less GPU dependent than group 2. It does depend on the resolution, if you plan to play at 4K then you'll need a very strong GPU regardless of the type of game.

I would suggest a minimum of a 3060 Ti if you play at 1080p or 1440p and would like to handle future AAA games.

With Ghz versus cores, an example would be how the Ryzen 5600X (6-core) performs similarly to the 3700X (8-core), but like I said, don't buy a CPU just because it has faster cores, since going forward you will definitely need those extra cores.

Buying a 4-core CPU is just a bad idea in 2021, regardless of how fast it is. Buying a 6-core like a 10400, 11400 or 3600 (even a 5600X) is more of a stopgap and you'll likely be upgrading it in a few years. If you want this PC to last 5 years or more, then just get a 5800X now.

 

[Daniel John Powell]

@Tetras and @The_Arbiter thanks for the clarity me your both are brilliant explain to me.

It makes sense as old gaming they focus one core, now and future will more multi-core and threads games as they open more possible and better games experience and easy upgrade in software. That is why my old games were not helpfully. Like Command & Conquers and HOI 4.

So I make my mind up now I will go for

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5800x + Cooler - I won’t overclocker it to extended lifespan and low temp.
GPU: NVDIVA 3060 Ti (Thanks for point my errors @The_Arbiter) - Edit
RAM: 32gb 3200MHz DDR4
HD: SSD 1x 2TB Game stroage and software and 1x M.2 For O/s (if both SSD and M.2 near the same price so 2x m.2)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra (I don’t bothered about wifi as i preferred Powerline ethernet plug over wifi) if i changing mind i could use USB Wifi.
PSU: ? I don’t yet decision with this.

Tower: 1 Slot for Interior CD-Reader/BR-Player for my old games cd or go for full fan with Extended CD-reader high-speed plug Type-C I need more time research which one this.

these specs should be great for the long term with future proof That is what I was originally planning... Thanks for making my mind up and make my decision easier now.

Thank you again @The_Arbiter and @Tetras for point right hardware

 

[mickyflinn]

850w to a 1000w psu would be advisable as the 3090 does have high power spikes, something like the corsair rm with a 10 year warranty.

Dont buy a psu unless it has a 10 year warranty.

 

[Tetras]

Newer games will need to be on a PCI-E M.2 drive, not a SATA SSD (see: Microsoft DirectStorage).

 

[Daniel John Powell]

Thanks @Mickyfinn

I will look at it, I read Nvidia say recommend 750w so 850-1000w is a reasonable option. <— Long term with 10 years Warranty is good shout.

@Tetras

Yeah, I was considered PCI-E.4 M.2 Drive or NvME M.2 Drive and thanks for Point to take a look read about Mircosoft DirectStorage which I didn’t know about this before i read after u put post, it is a really good to read and educates to myself thanks again... I appercite this.

it is sense they go focus PCI-E for future speed data read for SSD to increase speed loading up and read data in long term. so SATA is dead! useless upgrade PS4 Pro SATA SDD.

 

[EsaT]

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5800x + Cooler - I won’t overclocker it to extended lifespan and low temp.

RAM: 32gb 3200MHz DDR4
HD: SSD 1x 2TB Game stroage and software and 1x M.2 For O/s (if both SSD and M.2 near the same price so 2x m.2)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra (I don’t bothered about wifi as i preferred Powerline ethernet plug over wifi) if i changing mind i could use USB Wifi.

Tower: 1 Slot for Interior CD-Reader/BR-Player for my old games cd or go for full fan with Extended CD-reader high-speed plug Type-C I need more time research which one this.

Alpenfohn Brocken 3 would be very good cooler at food price.
Alpenfohn Brocken 3 CPU Cooler - 140mm= £42.95
Also unlike Scythe Mugen 5 it has flat base ideal with convex heatspreader of modern chiplet design Ryzens.
(Intel optimized convex base heatsink makes good contact only in small area)


For performance 3600MHz would be optimal and also still very well priced memory.
Though 3200MHz dual rank config would perform same as 3600MHz single rank in games. (but obviously loose to 3600MHz dual rank)


Forget multiple smaller drives at least in case of limited M.2 slots.
(though adapters could be used for installing couple more into PCIe slots)
Also basic NVMe SSD like WD Blue SN550 doesn't really cost much more per TB than SATA SSD
WD Blue SN550 1TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2B0C)= £89.99
WD Blue SN550 2TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3 Solid State Drive (WDS200T2B0C)= £199.99

Full speed PCIe v3 drive doesn't cost much more, but price jumps lot for PCIe v4.
Corsair Force MP510 series 1920GB NVMe PCIe M.2 Solid State Drive (CSSD-F1920GBMP510)= £248.99
TeamGroup T-Force Cardea Zero Z440 2TB NVMe PCIe Gen4 M.2 Solid State Drive= £329.99


Expensive board won't make CPU any faster, or longer good lasting.
Also in case of Gigabyte chipset cooler design degrades in higher models from more sabotage by marketroids.
£200 Aorus Elite actually has better chipset cooler design with unconstricted fan and farther from graphics card's slot.
Though for bang per buck B550 boards win.

Because of disposable design fashion raping cases 5.25" drive bays are nowadays very rare in cases.
Corsair Obsidian 750D and few BeQuiet's are one of the few remaining.
Corsair doesn't have USB-C, but unlike modern disposable cases cases it can be easily upgraded to have USB-C:
Akasa Interconnect GX 5.25" Front Bay for USB 2.0 / 3.0 / 3.1= £22.99

 

[EsaT]

Newer games will need to be on a PCI-E M.2 drive, not a SATA SSD (see: Microsoft DirectStorage).

No they won't need to be.
Game developer might as well jump to front of train if thinking demanding NVMe drive for game to work.
But they'll be able to use faster transfer rates more.

Though super fast loading times have anyway been possible earlier by good coding of the game...
https://www.realhardwarereviews.com/silicon-power-us70-1tb-review/11/

 

[Daniel John Powell]

Alpenfohn Brocken 3 would be very good cooler at food price.
Alpenfohn Brocken 3 CPU Cooler - 140mm= £42.95
Also unlike Scythe Mugen 5 it has flat base ideal with convex heatspreader of modern chiplet design Ryzens.
(Intel optimized convex base heatsink makes good contact only in small area)


For performance 3600MHz would be optimal and also still very well priced memory.
Though 3200MHz dual rank config would perform same as 3600MHz single rank in games. (but obviously loose to 3600MHz dual rank)


Forget multiple smaller drives at least in case of limited M.2 slots.
(though adapters could be used for installing couple more into PCIe slots)
Also basic NVMe SSD like WD Blue SN550 doesn't really cost much more per TB than SATA SSD
WD Blue SN550 1TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3 Solid State Drive (WDS100T2B0C)= £89.99
WD Blue SN550 2TB SSD NVME M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3 Solid State Drive (WDS200T2B0C)= £199.99

Full speed PCIe v3 drive doesn't cost much more, but price jumps lot for PCIe v4.
Corsair Force MP510 series 1920GB NVMe PCIe M.2 Solid State Drive (CSSD-F1920GBMP510)= £248.99
TeamGroup T-Force Cardea Zero Z440 2TB NVMe PCIe Gen4 M.2 Solid State Drive= £329.99


Expensive board won't make CPU any faster, or longer good lasting.
Also in case of Gigabyte chipset cooler design degrades in higher models from more sabotage by marketroids.
£200 Aorus Elite actually has better chipset cooler design with unconstricted fan and farther from graphics card's slot.
Though for bang per buck B550 boards win.

Because of disposable design fashion raping cases 5.25" drive bays are nowadays very rare in cases.
Corsair Obsidian 750D and few BeQuiet's are one of the few remaining.
Corsair doesn't have USB-C, but unlike modern disposable cases cases it can be easily upgraded to have USB-C:
Akasa Interconnect GX 5.25" Front Bay for USB 2.0 / 3.0 / 3.1= £22.99

thanks for these list and will look at these … i notice one thing.. mindblow about one of price..
89.99 for 1tb but two tb for 199.99 for 2 tb when you could get 2x 89.99 (179.98) vs 199.99 gen 3

gen 4 2tb cos around 2x crazy price i go look at video only 0.1 seconds different! so wait for 5/6 Gen PCI-e will make PCI-e Gen 4 massive price around bit expensive price as PCI-e 3

Thanks for links for cooler

I was thought Ryzen were maximum 3200mhz? or it were (I might look wrong) for zen 2? but thank you for this tips i will go look around 3600mhz.

 

[EsaT]

thanks for these list and will look at these … i notice one thing.. mindblow about one of price..
89.99 for 1tb but two tb for 199.99 for 2 tb when you could get 2x 89.99 (179.98) vs 199.99 gen 3

I was thought Ryzen were maximum 3200mhz? or it were (I might look wrong) for zen 2? but thank you for this tips i will go look around 3600mhz.

2TB SN550 has been £190.
But mainly price per GB difference comes down to different volumes bought.
Pretty sure 1TB drives are bought in lot bigger shipments than 2TB drives.

Original Zen(/+) architecture was pretty much limited to 3200MHz and even that needed Samsung B-die chips for long time.
Since chiplet design Zen2 memory controller has been good.

 

[The_Arbiter]

I'm surprised you are happy with 5800x and rtx3090 with your mentioned budget.

Personally i'd buy the 6900xt over the 3090, it simply is a bit cheaper. But cost to performance is still poo. But that's just how it is for the top gaming cards.

Fractal Design do decent cases with 5.25" drive bays. You can get external USB card readers and cd drives if you weren't aware, but i understand that drives built into the case are more pleasing. Take a look at various motherboards to see if they include preferred USB slots, audio ports, etc.

 

[Daniel John Powell]

Oh dear, I did a mistake as I typo RTX 3090 when should be 3060 ti (Faceplant) my apologies, @The_Arbiter. Thanks for spotting my errors. I go edit this mistake thanks you.

I am aware that CD Drive can be external as I got this, it seems slow, maybe cos I got USB power rather plug or Interior or depend on CD Drive. - I considered the interior as it looks nice and tidy. sacrifice for remove 1 fan? or it is not make a different.

I will take look at Fractal Design thanks you.

 

[Daniel John Powell]

2TB SN550 has been £190.
But mainly price per GB difference comes down to different volumes bought.
Pretty sure 1TB drives are bought in lot bigger shipments than 2TB drives.

Original Zen(/+) architecture was pretty much limited to 3200MHz and even that needed Samsung B-die chips for long time.
Since chiplet design Zen2 memory controller has been good.

that would be explain why they price different as shipping bigger volumes.

I will look at Memory controller for 5800x - so 3600mhz will be fine. I notice these motherboard can up to 4400 mhz i think it is would be small different so 3600mhz will good enough.

 

[mickyflinn]

Fractual design focus g .