Anti War demo's this Saturday

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If we didnt attack due to the protests, and Saddam carried on killing the very many that he does, would you feel responsible?

I presume (hope) you also feel Saddam should not be in power any longer? Please suggest an alternative method of ousting him.

Do you of the plight or the Iraqi people? Do you know how they feel?

What do you feel you will gain by protesting?

What do you feel about the lame protesters who are spoiling the name of the genuine ones, such as yourself.

Would your stance change at all if banned weapons were found or used?


Thank you for your time.

Mal
 
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Originally posted by Over Clocker
If we didnt attack due to the protests, and Saddam carried on killing the very many that he does, would you feel responsible?

I presume (hope) you also feel Saddam should not be in power any longer? Please suggest an alternative method of ousting him.

Do you of the plight or the Iraqi people? Do you know how they feel?

What do you feel you will gain by protesting?

What do you feel about the lame protesters who are spoiling the name of the genuine ones, such as yourself.

Would your stance change at all if banned weapons were found or used?


Thank you for your time.


Mal

Hello. I'm Rach. Sorry, but I don't quite know what you mean by "lame protesters" - do they hobble?

Saddam is an a**e, yes. no one disputes this, but by bombing all hell out of a country you will kill thousands of innocent people. This is why we object to it. 500,000 children died in Iraq due to UN embargoes (and Madeliene Albright said that that price was "worth it"!!!) and Dennis Halliday, UN Co-ordinator of Humanitarian relief resigned his post in 1998 saying that the UN wa rsponsible for "genocide" in the country (his successor also resigned for the same reasons). So if you ask about deaths in Iraq, I say that our countries are causing them. Not Iraq (he's still a w**ker, don't get me wrong). Also, the US and UK govenments funded the gassing of the Kurds in Halabja and not one western country spoke out about this, while the protest groups i am involved with did speak out. So again, who wants to help people?

Method of ousting Saddam? Stop starving the people, denying them of cancer treatment for the 500% increase in cancer around Basra (Iraq) because the the depleted uranium we used there, stop denying them the means of education. Then they might be able to do something themselves against him.

Of course i feel for the Iraqi's. I grew up in Libya, and that is very similar, and they are the most friendly, accepting and charming people you will ever meet. And, sadly, horribly oppressed. And I do know Iraqis here. We work closely with Iraqi Kurds here. One of our local speakers, Yassim Gaffour, lost his whole family in Halabja gassing and fled to the UK. He opposes this war. He knows innocents will die and he's seen enough of it. Obviously he wants rid off saddam, but not by killing thousands of people.

By protesting we are trying to show that we oppose this. Generate discussion and make people like you ask questions so that you don't just get your information from the BBC propaganda Greg Dyke bulls**t we're fed. Seek INFORMATION!! Not hype. Read!!! I oppose this war because of what I've found out ... and believe me, I wish I hadn't. It's sunny now. I want to chill out and have fun. i don't want to spend all my time doing this. But once you've found out, it's outrageous, and if you have a soul you can't but object. It's insane!!

If all banned weapons were found I would say "hoorah - ditch them noW! and now move on to Israel and get rid of their chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. And then the US (who have used all 3 types, which no other country has done ... don't you thing that makes them the greatest threat?!!!) and then the UK. Pakistan and India. All the mad nutters. All the horrific weapons. And I would say, this is the LAST time the UK sells these weapons to people. If you don't want them to have them. Don't give them. If you want to know what they have, check your ******* invoice!

Please read lots. The information is out there. People are people the world over. If you have no personal quarrel with them, please help them. They're helpless. We have a voice. Thank you.

(really sorry, just been told I can't swear. Please accept edits)

/edit - Just tidied up presentation for Over Clocker ;) , sorry d00d S
 
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Excuse my late arrival ;)

Originally posted by JodieG All amounts to the same thing really. You either support them or you don't. Think it's clear which camp the protestors fall into...
I wish I could have a polarised view of this issue. Personally, I don't have even nearly enough information to decide whether or not we should go to war, however, I do believe that to go to war, to risk the lives of people (civilians/armed forces, they're all just people), we need to have *conclusive* proof that it is absolutley necessary. This is why I'd vote (if I could) for no war, but believe me, that isn't easy because I've read lots about Saddam and I do believe he has WMD and I do believe he *must* be removed from power, him and his entire bloodthirsty, inhuman family and supporters. I just need more proof I guess, and I'd prefer some more support from our fellow nations (I'll come to that later).

I don't believe we'd exhausted all the diplomatic opportunities though I do admit the amount of time we've given Saddam already is ridiculous but that raises another question of why has the UN's control of Saddam's weapons development been so diabolical? Why did Bush senior stop when Saddam's regime was ready to topple?

As for the agendas of everyone involved, well I honestly believe that to deny it has anything to do with oil is just naive. No doubt, we're all aware here of the point about the vast oil reserves Iraq has. Bush has (thankfully) stated that Iraq's oil will continue to belong to Iraq but TBH isn't it likely that Bush just wants *access* to the oil? Getting it for free would be a bonus of course but you can always believe that the US Government will coin it in when they tax the US public on the resulting gasoline - much more lucrative than the crude oil!

I'm not in the know, and as I pointed out in another thread, and as dirtydog has also mentioned, I have to rely on others to process information that I don't have access to for one reason or another. Blair asked us all to trust his opinion, and that he was privy to information that we weren't. Well, that didn't stop one of his own Cabinet Ministers calling him reckless or Robin Cook resigning, or the other MPs resigning their posts either. I did hear that Robin Cook would stand to be £70K worse off now he's resigned his position and I'd say that an *MP* (remember what kind of person we're talking about) who is willing to lose money and sacrifice their career must be pretty much convinced that what they're doing is right. That's something I just can't reconcile I'm afraid. Can anyone else? Can I ask why?

Back to our fellow nations, I really wonder about the French and the way they're acting. The declaration about issuing a veto regardless just seemed such an odd thing to do. I would've thought they'd find it more satisfying and appropriate to see the US' argument voted against in the UN. The French declaration of intended veto effectively made the seeking of the "2nd" resolution pointless so it never really got voted on (surely a vote defeat would be much worse for the US) - as I say, such an odd approach.

The hypocrisy demonstrated by the US is frankly, astonishing. The whole reaction to the French and their veto is a whole set of issues alone yet I can't believe that the US would ever complain about anyone using their power of veto when the US has so obvioulsy abused their privilege of veto so many times in the past to defend the actions of Israel. Their attitude to other nations' development of WMDs is incredible considering their contribution to this practice both in terms of development of their own weapons and their supply to other nations, some of them governered by nothing less than Dictators! Then again, the way the French talk of peace, despite the fact that they were, not too long ago, and regardless of World opinion, testing nuclear weapons in French Polynesia.

As an example of marketing, the lead-up to the war has been handled really badly. There's been talk of how much firepower will be used and how it's a war with Iraq, and TBH, the US has only recently changed its language. Now it's all about surgical strikes against military targets and targets where Saddam, his family and supporters may be hiding. I believe that if the description of the action to be taken as a "war", had been scaled down to a "military operation to surgically remove Saddam", the anti-war movement would not have been so strong. I just hope that my opinion proves to be correct, that this war will in fact not be one with Iraq at all, but it will be with just Saddam and his supporters.

I'm not trying to win a debate here, I just want to express my opinion and tell you why I don't think we should've gone to war *just yet* though I do believe it's possible we would be just putting off the inevitable. There's loads more to discuss unfortunately - as I said, this is a very complex issue, and I just cannot come down 100% on either side. I really wish I could! One thing I will say though, is that now our armed forces are doing their jobs, I wish them well and I hope they all make it back in one piece. I don't believe anyone, anti-war protestor or not should think otherwise. I have family members out there and they and all the rest of them have my full support in terms of hoping for their safety and their success.

One thing I'm hoping for (and this is one of the things I meant when I said I hope for success), is the confirmation of Saddam's possession of WMDs. I will be more than happy to have some of my doubts removed if this happens, and I hope the anti-war protestors will feel the same way. Who knows? Perhaps the real reason the French didn't want the war to happen is that we're going to find the WMDs were all supplied by them ;)
 
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mmmmm yes. Im an anti-war protestor. I've made a t-shirt - it says "save our boys - stop the war". Also, "no blood for oil". Unfortunately those poor British soldiers will be personally responsible for the crimes against humanity and war crimes that they WILL be responsible for (see http://www.un.org/law/icc/ especially articles 7 (a (b has already gone on for 12 years - hence Dennis Halliday's resignation) and k) and 8 (b)). So will Tony Blair. This war is illegal at the very least

- Rach
 
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OMG!

I just saw the news on what the US has proposed as the rebuilding plan (awarded to one of 5 US companies). It even includes an anti abortion clause, who should be in government, and who runs the businesses :eek: And this was on BBC news too.

If you need any evidence about America's aims, then look at this.

S
 
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Hi there Rach. Please accept my apoligies, bt i'm falling asleep here so will keep it short.

Thanks for your reply, and here is a short reply. I will try to elaborate tomorrow :)

Firstly, i respect you for standing up for what you beleive in. My response to "lame protestors" spoiling it for people such as yourself is a view guaged by many people. You spend time and effort on your protest, and i beleive they are being ruined by people jumping on the band wagon. You could answer all my questions, however, if i asked these qustions to many of the protestors, as has been done, i would be met with displays of

"I have come here to support my mates"
"War is wrong cos people die"
"--Turns red and shrugs shoulders"

etc.

I beleive people like this are spoiling your name.


UN aid to Iraq, in the form of various UN programs must go through the B'ath Party. Iraq has refused the UN to distribute aid inside Iraq, therefore we cannot be held responsible for it not reaching the Children, and Saddam will not allow us the responsiblity. There is very credible proof (from the countries invloved) that iraq sells medical supplies to poor african nations who desperately need it wherever it comes from. If only he allowed to UN to do its job properly, perhaps we could have halted these deaths.

You T-Shirt with no blood for oil has lost me some of the repect that i held for you though. It has been unoquivocally stated any money from oil will be held in trust for the rebuilding of Iraq, this will legally formed, there will be NO way to siphon of this money out of Iraq. Most Middle Eastern governments have dropped using the Oil issue as a protest for this reason.

yes, people in the UN have resigned, many more have stayed on.

Have you read the legally binding contract to rebuild iraq. Its too big to list here, but i suggest you read it.

Have you heard the official responses from organisations such as Christian Aid and Amnesty International?

Also another comment which diminished your statement was

"If you don't want them to have them. Don't give them. If you want to know what they have, check your ******* invoice!
"
Its FACT that most iraqi weaponry comes from France and Russia, with most of the bio-chem technologu coming from the former East Germany. I say most, not all. I know we sold some.

However, past mistakes are NO excuse for innaction now.

I gain most of my information not from the BBC as you suggest. Whilst at uni, i carried out a MASSIVE study on this issue with the university association. This included many interviews with exiled Iraqi's here, huge amounts of information gathering etc.

I think you would suprised at the kind of figures we are talking about that are attributee to death by Saddam. All i will say is that it is measured in millions.

Iraq has suffered greatly under Saddam Hussain. Knowing what i do, i cannot and will not refute my support for this war.

I would also greatly appreciate it is you edit your post to include your reply OUtside my quote, and remove my name from the bottom of your statement and put it at the bottom of mine instead;)

Mal

Extracts from Lt Col Tim Collins, who leads the battlegroup of the 1st Bn of the
Royal Irish, told his troops on the eve of war:

"
We go to liberate not to conquer. We will not fly our flags in their
country. We are entering Iraq to free a people and the only flag
which will be flown in that ancient land is their own. Show respect
for them.

If you harm the regiment or its history by over-enthusiasm in
killing or in cowardice, know it is your family who will suffer.

Tread lightly there. You will see
things that no man could pay to see and you will have to go a long
way to find a more decent, generous and upright people than the
Iraqis. You will be embarrassed by their hospitality even though
they have nothing.

Don't treat them as refugees, for they are in their own country.
Their children will be poor, in years to come they will know that
the light of liberation in their lives was brought by you.

As for ourselves, let's bring everyone home and leave Iraq a better place for us having been there.
 
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Originally posted by BuckEye
OMG!

I just saw the news on what the US has proposed as the rebuilding plan (awarded to one of 5 US companies). It even includes an anti abortion clause, who should be in government, and who runs the businesses :eek: And this was on BBC news too.

If you need any evidence about America's aims, then look at this.

S

Read between the lines, dont just jump all over something!

Read what it proposes.

If you think a country the size of America would spend copious Billions on a war for the sole aim of construction contracts, then i need the use of the large rolleyes.

Please dont be so naive in your views. You were watching the same news program as me, but, i took the time to find out more that the tv told me.
 
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Sorry m8, was adjusting the posts above.

My research was, and is, in progress.

Since there was a request above for opinion and reaction, I thought I'd drop mine in to that broadcast ;)

S
 
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Originally posted by BuckEye
Sorry m8, was adjusting the posts above.

My research was, and is, in progress.

Since there was a request above for opinion and reaction, I thought I'd drop mine in to that broadcast ;)

S

Muchly appreciated :)

Made a nice read. However i just dont agree with most of your point. I feel too much sorrow for for the people of Iraq who have suffered now for 30 years at the hands of a tyrant.

The time to liberate has come. It is our responsibility as a just nation to do this.
 
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