The_Dark_Side said:
has anyone started taking bets on how many posts of the "driving aids interfere between me and my machine" type that this thread will attract?
These kinds of posts do have some validity though, although it depends on the car and the driver. I'm one of them myself. On many cars, traction control, and especially ESP do take away quite a bit of driver interaction and communication. They also mean the car doesn't necessarily act 'conventionally' when pushed, as systems such as ESP can act in a way a driver can't (for example, braking individual wheels, or braking them at different rates) which alter the way the car behaves.
I'm not a huge fan of the current trend of fixing traction control and esp to absolutely everything that has wheels, a 1.4 fiesta doesn't need traction control, nor for that matter does a Clio 182. It's simply a case of remembering the throttle is analogue, not digital.
The other problem with these kinds of systems is that if you do overcook it properly, they can't overcome physics, but because they hide some of the communcation, it's harder to work out.
That doesn't mean they shouldn't be fitted to cars that need them, but a better standard of driver education would do much more.